Just an idea, but Undivided needs some bonus, as currently there's no reason to use it at all.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

I agree, but I don't think that's the way to go. As an unfluffy (or extremely fluffy, according to current "fluff") idea, how about letting the undivided formations summon a mix of lesser daemons? It'd be balanced due to them not having access to cultist troops, letting them have flexibility instead of sheer power.

As for the defilers, I do think 25cm as opposed to 20cm and infiltrate would more properly represent them, so I support that.

And while we're throwing ideas around, how about making that Keeper of Secrets move 20cm? It's supposed to be pretty fast (especially in comparison to the Great Unclean One), which is even supported by the current edition.

They are as fast as land raiders and stuff and faster than Russ? Seems a bit ungainly to have them scuttling so fast after vehicles!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I've said it before but I'm really against artificially messing with units to hit a price point like this.

It has set stats and weapon loads and we price it accordingly. Trying to make it fit a point cost makes people suggest doing things like artificially reducing its weapon stats for no other reason than hitting an artificial price

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Or just make it so that you need to have a faction to summon. No defined allegiance means no summoning. We can remove those generic Chaos Beasts as well then

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Then why would you ever go undivided? There has to be some kind of bonus or it'll never be used.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Why would you now other than to provided non-hated "buffer" formations?

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Aircraft are highly artificial in Epic - making a weapon twin or altering what AA it has is not beyond the bounds of reason.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

That's the only reason you'd do it now, yes, and while it's a sucky reason it's much better than no reason at all!

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

How about everything is undivided unless you wish to add cult marines to that formation? Then they become that faction?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

SO you'd have to buy cult marines to be able to summon the faction specific daemons?

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Yes. Vanilla marines get to be undivided, ones with cultists in them can always push the fools to the front and let them sell their souls to whatever gods to get those specific demons.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Depends on how the rest of the rules would change as well.

If you aren't buying a Daemonic Pact and/or a Chaos Champion for summoning then having to buy cultists to mark the formation might be fun.

(BTW watch the language. Cultists are a specific LaTD unit so don't use it if you mean Bezerkers :-)

Depends on how far the rest of the list changes structurally. Upgrade slots are tight with the current summoning system so unless that was loosened somehow the requirement to buy Cult Marines would be a bit too much.

There is also the issue that you'd be asking players to pay for something they used to do for free so unless there was some give in the rest of the summoning system this would seem like a penalty compared to how it used to be done

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

If it isn't for balance reasons but it seems a bit much to be  modifying the aircraft simply to make an arbitrary point cost.

After seeing them in play I would also be hesitant to make it easier to throw more of them on the table. I'd like to get some more games in with them to see what they perform like but they are really deadly now. I actually also wanted to game with them with no armour save a bit more to see how that performed as a balance/fluff aspect of the unit

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.