Maybe it's my math hmmmmmmmm, let's see

6+ = 16.6%
5+ = 33.2%
4+ = 49.8%
3+ = 83.0%
2+ = 67.4%

Nope looks good to me

*Note to self, try not to carry on conversation with son when posting*
*Or if posting proof it before putting it up, after conversation over*

Obviously Hena I am not getting the point across, and that would be my fault not yours.

Not only can the Nids get a whole tassal of WEs, but they can do it and still get a whole bunch of the other stuff

In effect the Nids can put together a viable army, as the Nidzilla list shows (8xActivations is good for the 3,000 point range. And the Army features almost x60 common units in two possible swarms), and get a whole bunch of WEs to back them up

One glance at the presented IG list and one quickly sees that the IG isn't a balanced list, ever see a Shadowsword Company try to duke it out alone with an Ork Big or Uge Mob? It ain't pretty. The Swarms in this list are gonna have a field day cause the IG just ain't gonna be able to cut them down fast enough to make a serious dent in all those Commons. (Anybody wanna put bets down on How long the Rgt HQ Company is going to last?) But if they do that then the WEs will be partying on the objectives.

The combination of the two is what is creating the problem, and given a choice we should slide in favor of the commons/uncommons over the WEs.

I do not see how weapons changes or points adjustments are going to change the numbers that can be fielded. (I do hope I was clearer Hena)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As I really like how all the 'new' special rules we are now using work, over the old version, (Hold comments on Spawn please) as they are now aligned much more within the Epic-A core rules.

As Spawning really does work, IE the entire concept of being able to return bugs to the field, and how it is carried out referring directly to the mechanics not the rule, we need to start looking at how to max out the list and fix it.

Spawning is just a matter, now, of determining what rule system we want to use to determine how many return to the field. IE roll 2D3, add and subtract D3s, fixed by Synapse type, etc. The point is the concept works, just the exact mechanics need to be worked out.

Considering this is the only real 'rules' bump that has so far arose I'd say not too bad for a major overhaul of the same.

Good work all, lots of ideas for me to consider here, really.

Now let me see where did I put my abacuss<=(spelled wrong on purpose)

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

Spawning really is what makes the nids different, so it makes sense that nailing it down is going to be tough. Especially considering how "opinionated" (politest way of putting it    ) we Epic loves can get.

I also miss the regen rules but wasn't going to make a fuss out of it since no one else commented on there exclusion.

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Dave

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For comparison purposes use the Minervan list.

SHT Company (1 Stormblade, 2 Shadowswords, SC, Commissar)
SHT Company (1 Stormblade, 2 Shadowswords, Commissar)
2x SHT Company (3 Shadowswords, Commissar)
2x single Shadowsword (2 with Commissar)
Deathstrikes (if you want TK, you can't beat these)
2x Thunderbolt squadron
3000points, 9 activations

The Stormblades are very mean as they approach, as well as being Fearless due to the Commissars, I find they are a huge help to avoid Shadowswords getting torn up in Engagements.
This particular combination isn't much good against an army that isn't swarming with hard target's but it is brutal agains said hard targets.

I've used variations on this list to devastating effect.

I think the Tyranids eventually need 3 lists, Phase 3, Phase 4 and Nidzilla. The massive WE availability is nice and sometimes fun, but if you want to include it in the standard list there should prolly be a better way to make gaunts cool.

I know that's not real helpful, but I can't really see how you can nerf the big bugs and nerf the swarms without the list going from too good to worthless real fast.

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

For comparison purposes use the Minervan list.

SHT Company (1 Stormblade, 2 Shadowswords, SC, Commissar)
SHT Company (1 Stormblade, 2 Shadowswords, Commissar)
2x SHT Company (3 Shadowswords, Commissar)
2x single Shadowsword (2 with Commissar)
Deathstrikes (if you want TK, you can't beat these)
2x Thunderbolt squadron
3000points, 9 activations

The Stormblades are very mean as they approach, as well as being Fearless due to the Commissars, I find they are a huge help to avoid Shadowswords getting torn up in Engagements.
This particular combination isn't much good against an army that isn't swarming with hard target's but it is brutal agains said hard targets.

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

On the subject of my treadhead Minervans I am as well known for having 6-8 Infantry companies.  

What I meant about the balance between WEs and little bugs was that with a ton of WEs you don't need good spawning rules, they could be total rubbish since you aren't going to use them much its irrelevant.

If you want lots of common broods though you need balanced spawning rules since they don't have guns and need to swarm into Base to Base.

BTW, how do some of the diehards deal with FF Engagements at 6/11cm?

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

BTW, how do some of the diehards deal with FF Engagements at 6/11cm?

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

Umm... no they don't . Infiltrate does not double counter charge ... . From 2008 FAQ

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

Spawning Proposals

(A) v9.0 Unchanged
As stated the v9.0 as it is presented

(B) v9.0 Modified
As v9.0 but Swarms that are both broken and within 30cm of the enemy cannot spawn

© Fixed
The spawning values are fixed by Synapse type and then modified for situation

Assault Group x5 SP
Attack Group (x1 HT) x5 SP
Attack Group (x2 HT) x6 SP
Harassment Group x5 SP
Hive Group x8 SP
Infestation Group x6 SP
Nexus Group x6 SP
Strike Group x6 SP
(Note SP equals Spawning Points)

Modifiers to above
-2 SP If Swarm Broken
-2 SP If Swarm within 30cms of enemy

(D) Random Spawning
All Synapse get 3D3 for spawning except the Dominatrix which gets 4D3 The total of the rolls is the spawning points available. Rolls are made for each swarm, and units spawned, in turn before moving to the next swarm.

Modifiers
Broken -1D3
Enemy within 30cm -1D3

Thoughts................

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

a) was very confusing for me given the adding, subtracting, halving and rounding.

b) Could you clarify.  I had thought it was a 2d3 global roll where broken swarms, or swarms within 30cm on the enemy use the lower of the two rolls. And where swarms that are broken and within 30cm do not spawn. If that's the case, I'd be willing to test this like I said.

c) Too unrandom for me and too many values to remember. Epic is a dice rolling game.  Let's roll dice for this kind of stuff. There's a reason Jervis moved away from the BM chart from Epic 40k.

d) Am I to understand there's no global spawn roll here? 3d3 seems like a bit much. Will Synapse values still be added in? If so then it's definitely too much. Obviously, I'll test it though.

I'll also mention the same thing to you that I did to Markconz, the subtracting a d3 seems weird. Does that mean I roll a D3 and subtract that value or roll one less? My suggestion to him back then was to word it as follows:

All Synapse get 1D3 for spawning except the Dominatrix which gets 2D3. The total of the rolls is the spawning points available. Rolls are made for each swarm, and units spawned, in turn before moving to the next swarm.

Modifiers
Not Broken +1D3
No Enemy within 30cm +1D3

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

b) Could you clarify.  I had thought it was a 2d3 global roll where broken swarms, or swarms within 30cm on the enemy use the lower of the two rolls. And where swarms that are broken and within 30cm do not spawn. If that's the case, I'd be willing to test this like I said.

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

A) IMO while the mechanic seems to be fairly practical, it also seems to yield too few spawning points to work with (see note below on possible fix)

B) Would seem to produce even fewer spawning points unders particular circumstances - would need to be tried out, but at first glance would be worse than a)

C) Effectively what I suggested here. Although you know what each swarm will produce, I quite like this. It has to be fasterand is also less complex for those who are 'mathmatically challenged'

D) While I quite like the principle of adding or subtracting dice rather than values, I suspect this will not be sufficiently practical to allow differentiation of the synapse capabilities

So, I would probably go for A or C.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Did anyone ever try the Necron respawning method for Tyranids?

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

I think it was mentioned as an idea back in they day when spawning was an action and everything cost one point to spawn.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal

You have to remember that Tyranids have very few BMs on them as opposed to Necrons because of the brood creatures being expendable. I think the end result of Necron-esque spawning would be very few brood creatures back on the table due to rallying. From this you would see Tyranids doing a lot of marshal actions which just seems wrong with regards to the bugs.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17