_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

_________________
Tyranid air marshal

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Right, on the Sunday of last weekend’s London tournament I managed to get two games in with my Emperor’s Children, 1 against Alan’s Marines, engage and rhino based (No Warhounds and only 1 Thunderhawk) and the second against Matt Otter’s Marines, (2 Warhounds & 3 Thunderhawks).

I was playing with the following:

Retinue + Supreme Commander and Debaser – 350pts
Chosen + Daemon Prince – 550pts (BTS)
Bikes – 350pts
Bikes – 350pts
Daemon Engines – 4x Defilers & 2x Debasers – 500pts
Daemon Knights – 450pts
Subjugator – 225pts
Subjugator – 225pts

8 activations of all fearless units (39no)

In the first game I placed my take and hold in the middle of the table whilst Alan placed his to my right flank and half way back in the middle. Both Blitz were centrally located. I garrisoned the Daemon Knights off my right Defend the Flag (DtF) and the Daemon Engines to the right of the central DtF in cover. Retinue garrisoned in cover off the Blitz. Alan garrisoned a formation Land Speeders behind a hill.

My bikes and Subjugators were then set up behind the AA cover of the three Debasers. Alan set up a second formation of Land Speeders behind the first with a mechanised tactical with the supreme commander & Bikes. A further tactical formation was set up by the Blitz with a third on the left flank. Held in reserve were a formation of Terminators and a Thunderhawk carrying Assault & Devastators formations.

Game started with the Chosen teleporting down on the Marine Blitz as I sought to gain the initiative from the start. Alan replied with his terminators. Initiative went to the Marines and the Tacticals by the blitz sustained at the Chosen who stood. This was followed up by the Terminators engaging the Chosen and losing three of their number whilst the Chosen were knocked down to three(?) and broken.

I responded by moving the Knights and firing on the landspeeders, a single knight was suppressed by the overwatch fire from the speeders. Firing broke the formation. The defilers then opened up fire with their battle cannons and targeted the second landspeeder formation and clipped the Supreme Commander’s Tacticals. Alan tried to break the knights and ended up with the bikes engaging (FF) the knights with the second speeder formation supporting. The second speeders were with in counter charge range and had blast markers, so bringing these in evened things up. This combat resulted in a tight victory to the knights which left 1 speeder and three bikes left. Alan then pushed these forward and into the range of a Subjugator which subsequently wiped them out later on in the turn.
Both sets of bikes and the second subjugator either doubled or marched into the centre of the table whilst the left flank marines swept into protect the cent of the marine table. Not totally sure what the supreme commander did, but I suspect he failed to activate due to a lost Rhino from the Defiler’s barrage.

The thunderhawk landed and dropped off the devestators who shot at the defilers placing a blast marker.

Turn 2 had the defilers failing to activate and engage the devestators whilst a subjugator engaged the supreme commander & his tacticals wiping them out. One of the bike formations was broken by the marines whilst the other successfully took out the devestators.

Turn three saw the EC consolidate their position and fight off a last turn grab for the Blitz by two remaining Assault stands for the loss of three bikers, should have just fire fighted them.

The final result was a 4-0 victory to the Emperor’s Children which was a lot closer than the score line merited.

Second game against Matt was different. We played corner to corner as we had played the day before but this time instead of going toe to toe against his forces I place my Take & hold in one corner whilst Matt placed his in the other and centrally. I garrisoned my Retinue off the centrally placed DtF and my Daemon Knights & Engines in cover off my Blitz.

This was a different type of game as Matt did not try to attack my blitz and mainly left my Daemon Knights & Engines out of the game (950pts). My Chosen teleported down by the blitz and threatened the Marine BTS and Matt responded by teleporting his terminators down in between them.

I won the strategy and engaged the terminators, wiping them out. The BTS ran away after that. The rest of the game was primarily spent with Matt destroying both subjugators and bike formations (before they could engage anything) and firing as much as possible at the Chosen, who refused to die.

The game was won by the Chosen claiming Blitz and Take and Hold with the Daemon Knights. Matt admitted that early one he had decided to play for a draw, but there was no way I could push home my advantage and I was left with only 4 activations for the last turn.

Thanks again to both of my opponents for letting me test this list against their armies.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Thoughts from testing.

Lose the variable SR, its not needed and in two out of the three turns against Matt I rolled a total of 5, the other turn was 12...

Bikes are very nasty if you get to engage, if not they then become fire magnets. If we are going to keep the extra attack then the FF value of the unit needs to be dropped back to 4+.

Debasers work. They are not brilliant but fit in nicely with the army. I would limit them to up to half the Daemon Engine formation can be Debasers but otherwise leave as is and roll out their counterparts to other lists instead of Obliterators providing AA. It adds an interesting problem to list design, have AA cover or Rhino manoeuvrability.

Subjugators can be very good, but they will have problems against hoard armies.

The Knights are potentially too large as a full strength formation can lay down a basic 18 AP3+ shots which is very good for 450pts - scouts, fearless.

As may have been noticed from my list in the last post, I only took one Retinue as although these are good, the other options in the list are better. We might have to look at having Retinues as a Core and everything else a support option.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

As I had posted on the Spec Games Forums, if Possessed are out, then the name needs culling from various places in the text. In addition, the list needs to have the statline for the Icon Bearer added, as it is not mentioned anywhere.

_________________
The problem with knowing what we want is we just might get it.

Robert Fripp - DGM

Check out the blog at Chaos in Miami

Got a game tonight and going to try the following:
Retinue + transport + 3 landraiders 550
Retinue + 3 dread + debaser (garrison) 500
6 preds 300
6 Daemon Knights 450
Havocs + Dread (garrison o/w) 400 (poss change to transport rhinos)
Painlord 800

Playing against orks w/ great gargant. 1st time using the v2 list and want to see how both the knights and titan fair. Seems that buying transport and upgrading gets cheaper landraiders.

Any thoughts?

D.

_________________
Epic:Armageddon... Like Apocalypse but for grown-ups.

[b]Bearded Dice[/b]: [url]http://bearded-dice.co.uk[/url]

I'll look forward to how you get on. I would recommend that the daemon knights are garrisoned on Overwatch as well as I have found the 6x AP3+ shots to be potentially over the top.

I think that you might be lucky that you are facing a Great Gargant as you know that there will not be many aircraft which with your 1 Debaser could have caused you problems.

Are you using the Painlord stats or Banelord?

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Going to try Painlord just to see.

Have the overwatch rules changed? i thought you could only garrison if only 1 vehicle was over 15cm movement?

I faced the Ork army last week with my guard and had a flak battery that took care of his 3 fightas but don't know what I am facing this week.

Will keep a record for bat rep. Going to have to proxy most minis except knights and banelord as I have yet to paint up my emp children (being Tzeentchian and all that!)

D.

_________________
Epic:Armageddon... Like Apocalypse but for grown-ups.

[b]Bearded Dice[/b]: [url]http://bearded-dice.co.uk[/url]

Thanks for that Hena. Thought that maybe point 1 was actually 2 points - no unit speed over 15 or no WE or...

I also assumed that to garrison a formation must fulfill all the requirements. Anyway..

Will try that tonight. Looking forward to playing with this army, always loved Emperors Children but loyalties are what they are and I have given over to Tzeentch. Maybe will combine the 2 into Paul Daniels and Debbie Maghie (UK readers will know what I mean..say 'Yes Paul')

D.

_________________
Epic:Armageddon... Like Apocalypse but for grown-ups.

[b]Bearded Dice[/b]: [url]http://bearded-dice.co.uk[/url]

If units of knights garrisoning on overwatch are an issue, we could take Scout away from them...

Nooooo...!

Yes, they do horrible shooting, but so do for example Vultures. Knights are expensive and quite fragile.. and as current formation, in my opinion, are quite characteristic for EC army like scout titans - fast, agile, shooty, not-that-durable. For example, a Land Raider company easily handles a knight formation in Overwatch -or at least it puts it to situation that it can then be finished with some engage formation.

They might need to cost 500 for a formation, but do not mess with stats (as they are in LatD list, too).

Hm, if Scout titans cost +25 each (300 for Questor, 250 for Subjugator), 500 for Knights.. how the activations sink again, now that I finally have started to get 50% victories with EC... :]

I think that Scout works for the Knights, however the size of the formation concerned me, in the fact that the potential number of shots that they can fire. I should note that they are now a high priority in my 'to target' list so they don't often get their full allocation of shots.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion