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So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
Yes, its the final nail in the coffin 32%  32%  [ 13 ]
No, Epic is slowly growing round here 68%  68%  [ 28 ]
Total votes : 41

So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
pixelgeek
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:02 pm 
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(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,02:29)
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I think threads like this and some of the very negative posting about EA by board members on the SG forum and this one have done more damage recently than any of the new systems or GW.

If you are referring to my post then I think it was about high time that someone said it.

And for the record I loathe the Warmaster fantasy game, like the Ancients version much better and find that the issues I have with Warmaster Fantasy aren't a problem with Sci-fi Commander.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:09 pm 
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(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,02:29)
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GW may be killing EA as a commercial enterprise, but we're the ones killing it as a game.

Fans finally getting tired of being treated like waste products and complaining about that treatment is what is killing the game?

No.

GW made this mess and people getting POed and publicly walking away from the mess is not the problems with fans. The sole source of this problem is GW and no-one else.

If you want to sit back and accept being treated like this then that is your prerogative but don't tell other people that they should also meekly accept their fate "for the good of the game".

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duz.holger
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:20 pm 
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jeee we can still keep what ever version of epic alive if we want to (netepic is basicly SM2 and its still alive and kicking) so the only thing that can kill it is lack of minis

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:39 pm 
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(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,09:30)
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and there's no lack of minis!

Unless you play Chaos.

No new figs for two consecutive versions and the ones that are available are less than exciting looking.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:04 pm 
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We'll have to see what Chaotic type stuff DRM and/or E/W comes up with ...

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duz.holger
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:06 pm 
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still needs minis of the new crazy things in W40K

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Tertius
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:34 pm 
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I don't consider Epic to be "alive."  However, I don't understand the bizarre need of gamers to rely on an all-knowing manufacturer to keep the games they play at home "alive."  NetEpic proved to me that the concept of "life" for a gamesystem has nothing to do with its original manufacturer.  The players keep a game alive.  My local historicals gaming group is notorious for playing 20+ year-old miniatures rulesets, with no concern for their "life" or most recent FAQ or errata.  As L4 says: DWWFY.  I personally don't care if GW updates the Epic rules.  I admit I would like it if they continued to release 6mm figures, but, since they canned the SM2/TL rules, I haven't really liked GW's 6mm sci-fi rules.

I respect Pixelgeek's announcement, but I for one, haven't supported GW in years with Epic.  Why? Because it was almost impossible to do so.  No local game store carried the figures.  I have only seen one copy of the E:A rulebook for sale in a local store, and I have only met one other local E:A player. How did I find him? On TacComms (LordInquisitor)!  My point is, to walk away from GW and Epic is kind of meaningless. From my perspective, there is nothing to walk away from.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:45 pm 
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(Tertius @ Apr. 23 2008,15:34)
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My point is, to walk away from GW and Epic is kind of meaningless. From my perspective, there is nothing to walk away from.

Excellent point. One could even argue that GW walked away from us.

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:18 pm 
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(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,11:18)
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Believe it or not GW still have one of the largest ranges of 6mm minis,


At the moment GW is about 4th in terms of the size of their line.

GZG, Brigade and Iron Wind Metals all have larger ranges and there's any number of smaller manufacturers that produce scifi figs that would be useful in a "generic" system.

I for one am actually looking forward to being able to use my CAV minis or my Battletech figs or whatever as something other than proxies which you'll be able to do with SFC since it has a unit construction system in it.

That's been my personal biggest beef with E:A to date. The lack of flexibility in the force construction system.


(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,11:18)
QUOTE
and with Aeronautica Imperialis they are actually still adding to it.


That's Forgeworld not GW proper.

It's a separate business unit entirely and the fact that the figs are "epic" scale doesn't mean they were designed for use with Epic.

The AI rules don't integrate with EA at all... as a look at their air to ground rules will show... and given how many units there are that have no stats in Epic proper it's a bit of a reach to say it's support for Epic. By that standard DRM or EW is support for Epic.

And if you look at how much Forgeworld has pulled from the Epic proper line over the last three years even there you see declining support for Epic.




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duz.holger
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:28 pm 
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(Tertius @ Apr. 23 2008,21:34)
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I don't consider Epic to be "alive." ?However, I don't understand the bizarre need of gamers to rely on an all-knowing manufacturer to keep the games they play at home "alive." ?NetEpic proved to me that the concept of "life" for a gamesystem has nothing to do with its original manufacturer. ?The players keep a game alive. ?My local historicals gaming group is notorious for playing 20+ year-old miniatures rulesets, with no concern for their "life" or most recent FAQ or errata. ?As L4 says: DWWFY. ?I personally don't care if GW updates the Epic rules. ?I admit I would like it if they continued to release 6mm figures, but, since they canned the SM2/TL rules, I haven't really liked GW's 6mm sci-fi rules.

I respect Pixelgeek's announcement, but I for one, haven't supported GW in years with Epic. ?Why? Because it was almost impossible to do so. ?No local game store carried the figures. ?I have only seen one copy of the E:A rulebook for sale in a local store, and I have only met one other local E:A player. How did I find him? On TacComms (LordInquisitor)! ?My point is, to walk away from GW and Epic is kind of meaningless. From my perspective, there is nothing to walk away from.

here here
and as i just has proved you can even make your own hole new minis but it is a good thing that there is still produced minis i am personally not interested in rules but in minis (i play netepic)

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:18 pm 
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(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,10:18)
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Your just being fussy. There is no lack of minis.

Oh well then I must have been missing my Obliterator, Death Wheel, Devestator, Daemon Prince, Icon Bearer, Dreadnought and bike miniatures.

Silly me.

If I want utterly ancient LRs, Rhinos and Predators I do in fact have figs.

Nothing current. And certainly no figures for any of the new units in the army nor any models for anything vaguely new like the Dreadnoughts and bikes that were meant to be released with E 40K.

If you're happy with that, again, then fine but don't think that your opinion is universal.

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rose4100
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:47 pm 
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No local game store carried the figures.  I have only seen one copy of the E:A rulebook for sale in a local store


We have a GW in my city (Halifax) and they just stopped carrying specialist games in the store about 2 years ago. The reason being that its not worth it to them to keep the shelf space when they have two core systems that everyone is buying. BUT I'm very happy that GW still offers it through mail order, which is where I and my fiancee have ordered all our product. GW could save themselves a headache and can the entire epic line and probably create a bit of space in there warehouses if they dumped all their epic stock, but they don't. They don't create new content, but personally i'm pretty happy with what they have right now.

I think everyone (I for one) have been spoiled by their fantasy and 40k line because every year or so new models are created and metric tons of new content is released on their website. The current models are pretty decent, and what GW doesn't have Forge World has. Besides, there other lots of other nice models out there that are not GW-line. And don't forget scratch building! I'd say thats 1/2 the fun of the hobby, right?!

and I have only met one other local E:A player.
In my city of Halifax (population 372,000) there were only TWO epic players. I got into it 4 months ago which makes 3, my fiancee - 4 and I'm in the process of running demo's with everyone who's interested (3 more guys). Its not that Epic is dying, its that WE as players need to push it if we love it. Epic doesn't get magazine ads like other game systems do and if we want new players to play with then its our RESPONSIBILITY to bring new players into the fold. I'd proudly loan my army to a friend if he wants to play, and hopefully he will enjoy the game enough to go out and get his own. Its so easy for people to sit at their computer and complain about how little support the game is getting and how it is dying because GW doesn't care. Well that is a load of ****. If anything the game is dying because we arn't pushing it.  My goal is to turn Halifax from 2 players to at least 12 by Christmas. I'm at 7 people right now and thats just 4 months.

*whew* Thats my rant, sorry if you don't agree with me.

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