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what is wrong with the US and DK armys
ragnarok
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:36 pm 
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(Legion 4 @ Apr. 11 2008,04:28)
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.... I personally have a "civilianized" CAR-15, with 40 round assault mags (made in the UK!) and a number of 30 rounders too. That is my "home defense" weapon, just in case ... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I was most familiar with the system, and ammo & mags were "easily" available ... ?Works for me and it appears it so does a lot of other people/armies ! :D But wait until you see what comes next ! :)

Don't worry L4.  England wont be invading for a few years.

We have other things to do first before bringing a few wayward colonies to compliance :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:38 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Apr. 11 2008,18:36)
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Good point, E&C. A lot of modern rounds are designed to tumble inside the target, assuming they don't go clear through the target.

Aye but NATO doesn't generally use these in an attempt to maximize the enemy's survival chances.

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:46 pm 
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yes which pure evil a hurt soldier is mush worse then a death one its scary but its true a dead only cost a burial while a wounded cost medivac mash hospital rehabilitation and maybe pension the truth is that US lost Vietnam because of the number of surviving soldiers not the dead ones it put a extreme strain on the US economy

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:49 pm 
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i know its a bit cynical but its true

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:55 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Apr. 11 2008,11:36)
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Good point, E&C. A lot of modern rounds are designed to tumble inside the target, assuming they don't go clear through the target.

The effect is known as "keyholing" and pretty much every bullet in existence up to and including a .50 will start to do it once it strikes a target.

A lighter/slower round will start to do it once it hits a target in a shorter distance than a heavier/faster round will so the effect is more noticeable with something like a 5.56 than a 7.62 round.

As far as bullpups go though I've had a chance to shoot an AUG and the French FAMAS as well as handle the L85 and my two main beefs with them would have to be:

1) The magazines would seem to be a heck of a lot harder than a standard layout to change in a prone position, and;

2) I *really* don't like having the ejection port that close to my face when compared to a FN or a M16.

I just don't like sucking down the extra amount of fumes you seem to get with the layout and I found the ejection of the spent casing with the AUG and the FAMAS to be distracting since it's right next to your cheek.

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:13 pm 
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ok that was actually a very interesting observation thanks for that input

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Legion 4
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:06 am 
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I'm not worried about the UK reclaiming one of it's former colonies, Rag ... I'm more concerned with the UK Postal system getting my packages to the US in under 2 months ! ?:laugh: ?Some points, the smaller rounds fired by most assault rifles are based on a few things. The Assault Rifle round is closer in size to carbine bullet, ie. smaller than a full sized rifle round. Smaller rounds means soldiers can carry more ammo. Battlefield experiences in WWII more than previous conflicts, showed that most fire fights took place at 250m or less. So the longer range of a full sized rifle round is not needed for most situations. Modern tactics require more ammo for suppressive fire. Horse Cavalry was no longer a threat to infantry and the full size rifle round was no longer needed "to kill a horse". The small rounds would be effective enough to kill or wound a human. And an Assault Rifle is lighter as are their
rounds, which is also a consideration ... And as far as WIAs in Vietnam, the cost of the War "in both blood and treasure" was too much ...




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Legion 4
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:46 am 
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On my second tour on the DMZ in the ROK. Our new Bn Cdr made that our unit unofficial "motto" - "One Shot One Kill" ... My best buddy was a Plt Ldr in A Co., and his unit was given the nicknames the "Ghostbusters" and "Deer Hunters" as their predilection for not following the Bn Cdr's motto. And expending lots of ammo at any sound or movement and have nothing to show for it ! :laugh:  But back OT, I carried both an 11 lbs M-14 and 7.5 lbs M-16. And both felt like a ton by the end of a 12 mile forced march. Weight is definitely a consideration ...

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:31 pm 
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For a painful thought, even though the US *Army* retired their M14s in the 1960s/70s (L4, you'll have to correct me here), the US *Navy* still has almost all theirs.

Granted, you don't have to hump that pig 12 miles, but you sure do have to hump it a long way up a vertical ladder!  

We didn't have any M14s on the boat (even after I complained about having an M16 for bear watch in Alaska!), but after 9-11 we did get M60E3s (SEAL surplus, lighter and shorter, but still 25 pounds of heavy)

To be honest, I prefer a conventional rifle design for long-range work (L96 is a nice piece of work), but use a FAMAS for close-range "squad-support" when my friends get together and play airsoft.  Most everyone else is using conventional-layout weapons, but that does have a lot to do with what's available (Tokyo Marui FAMAS is going OOP, and there's not a good *affordable* [less than $600!] L85 out right now.)

If I was going to throw down on a live title 3 weapon (full-auto weapons are legal where I live, but are absolutely mind-bogglingly expensive), I'd probably get a P90 for home defense.  Too bad such a beast is $20,000, plus $200 to Uncle Sam so that he knows you have it (not that I object to the $200, or Uncle Sam knowing I own one, but $20k for a beat-up WW2 veteran Thompson is just unreal!).

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Legion 4
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:25 am 
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Yes, the M-14 was replaced with most front line US Army units by the mid '60s. When I was a cadet '75-'79, the first two years we were issued those ... we were very far from the front lines ! :laugh:  On the DMZ, our designated Snipers has M-21s which are "accurized" M-14s with day and night scopes. But we only have a handful of those. When I was a Mech Company Cdr, '87-'89, at Ft. Benning GA, I had sent a number of my troopers to Sniper   training ... however we had no Sniper weapons per se. So we hoped we'd get scopes for their M-16s, if we had to deploy to a "Hot Zone" !  I've never used a P90 but from what I have seen, it looks effective.

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:39 am 
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deadly effective 5,7 round has allot of stopping power and the compact design is a favourite for any border patrols unit and Swat teems and the 4th selector setting witch make the tricker like a AUG is a a stoke of genius

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Legion 4
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:59 pm 
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Not only that but the SG-1 Team in Star Gate on the Sci-fi Channel use it !  I saw them  kick some alien butt with P-90s, big time !! :alien: :laugh:

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duz.holger
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:19 pm 
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yes of course the 5.7 is a major headache it is a close quoter bullet but is extreme personal armor piecing on close range actually it can pierce full flack jacket with ceramical plating and the problem with the 5,56 is definitely not existing with the p90 round its deadly extremely deadly and its around only used by the p90

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Legion 4
 Post subject: what is wrong with the US and DK armys
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:43 pm 
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Yes, it is an off size round ... But it appears worth it ! :;):

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