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Grey Knights
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:38 pm 
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To them a fast drop and exit is vital, so something faster and less heavily armoured makes sense.


Try reading the background on the Landing Craft again... it's one of the fastest, most high-tech piece of equipment in the Marine arsenal.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:10 pm 
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(Lord Inquisitor @ Mar. 26 2008,19:47)
QUOTE
But really... the Inquisition Task Force is three lists there already. Just three lists together in one giant list. In reality, if you pick (say) Ordo Malleus with Guard allies, you're just picking units from the Universals, the Grey Knights and the Guard. Your choices are not that free, just there are alot of modules you could put together.

Yes, I know that, and that's really why you should split it into 3 lists. It's currently practically unreadable.

Epic lists are supposed to represent specific armies on specific campaigns, not all the options available at once.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:39 pm 
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lol @ Hena being accused of giving 40k some lovin'. :D

Anyways, I would love to see a Grey Knight / Daemon Hunters-only army list, at which point we can look into what works, and what doesn't, in proper detail.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:34 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 26 2008,20:38)
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To them a fast drop and exit is vital, so something faster and less heavily armoured makes sense.


Try reading the background on the Landing Craft again... it's one of the fastest, most high-tech piece of equipment in the Marine arsenal.

Is it faster and more manoeuvrable than a Thunderhawk though?  

As Lord Inq says the landing craft seems too big and heavy for the GK in my head too.  I haven't read any of the imperial armour though, im just going by the size and feel of the models and their stats.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:54 am 
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Thats what I wondered on the IA front, thanks Hena.

Looking at the E:A list the landing craft is describing a fast planet fall into a hot DZ (EDIT- looking at this again I realiise that what I argued earlier the GK would also be doing.  Ho hum).  In this case it will be as good as, even better than, a Thawk; after all your speed comes from going down a great big gravity well.  Where the Thawk will surely beat the Landing craft is in greater flexibility once inserted, and potentially faster redeployment/exit I would imagine too as:

- Each THT only has to concentrate on getting one LR,
- They are lighter and will be able to launch faster
- They are surely more manoeuvrable

How would either fare when it comes to covert entry exit too? To my mind its like the difference between a WW2 Landing Craft Assault and a  PT boat carrying commandos.

I may be completely wrong here by the way, I just like the idea of separate transports for the lists as adding a bit of character.  It would be really nice if there was some way to make it work with the LR transports.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:21 pm 
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To my mind its like the difference between a WW2 Landing Craft Assault and a  PT boat carrying commandos.


Then think of the difference between the THT and the Landing craft as the difference between a small PT boat, and a slightly larger PT boat.

The LCA is the kind of thing that the IG use. :)

It would be really nice if there was some way to make it work with the LR transports.

There really isn't, not without making up your own type of THT.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:31 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 27 2008,12:21)
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It would be really nice if there was some way to make it work with the LR transports.


There really isn't, not without making up your own type of THT.

Which is at the heart of Lord=I='s dilema. The point being that cool though the model may be, if it only carries a single LR, it really doesn't work from a purely army list perspective (let alone the need for people to pay for four of the things).

If you cannot position 2x LR side-by-side in the central location under the body between the legs, can't you "mount" a LR under each wing?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:52 pm 
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Indeed. The Grey Knights already have a suitable vehicle for the job (The Landing Craft).

Even if it does have a sucky name.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Ahh, caught in the horns of a dilemma.  The more I think about it i reckon that adapting the drop pod rule to represent a "THT" insertion may be a good way of going to make things different.




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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:39 pm 
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Right ... I think we've gone through pretty much the whole process that we went through before. This is exactly the issues I had.

- Landing Craft just don't feel right. I know people may disagree, but I think it is important to the list that the Grey Knights don't have any titan-sized support craft!

- THTs just don't work as they are due to the formation size of 4 terminators, but they do work if allowed to carry two LRs each.

Model-wise, I was intending to chop up two THTs, mounting the LRs one in front of the other (just as with the rhinos) so the THT would have a longer chassis, and then chop up the wings to give each wing two engines each. Of course, that involves chopping up two Forgeworld THTs per GK THT!

Is it really that unreasonable that the GKs have more efficient and specialised THTs considering that they only use LRs? There is actually a little bit of wasted space when it transports a Land Raider (two rhinos are longer than one LR), and LRs snuggle up pretty well.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Hey the idea of using ThunderhawkTransporters in the same way as Dropods seems to be a good idea.
Use ONE THT as marker. Make Heavy Bolter Attacks (i would say 1 or 2 per vehicle transported) in 15 or 20cm radius and then place the vehicles as with troops disembarking from Droppods.
Make it 25 points per two Rhinos/per LandRaider.

So no need to buy 1-4 THT which would then be a big points sink.

Off course you loose the ability to embark the vehicles and take of with them to be replaced on the table in the next turn. And you loose the ability for ground-attacks with the THT itself. But this is a good thing!

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Grey Knights
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:01 pm 
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@BL- great, thats exactly what I was thinking but couldn't express.  Extraction can be considered outside the scope of an epic game.  Also losing Thawk air support is no bad thing - would be odd to use them in that role anyway as they are so unsuited to it.

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