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Titan hammer formations
ragnarok
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:54 pm 
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I'm wondering, with the vast number of quicker minded and rule concious members out there. ?Has anyone tried to port over the titan hammer terminator force from apocolypse to epic?

For those who want to know this is a titan hammer strike force. ?It is a gaggle of termies with thunder hammers and storm shields, and one with a vortex gernade, who go around knee capping titans (though how they can reach a titans knees is beyond me).

It would be a nice 0-1 addition for any marine force.

The rules I can think of for it are,

KISS
Just remove the assault cannons from normal termies and give them a price cut.

Non KISS
Give them terminator assault weapons instead of power fists and 2 assault cannons.

terminator close combat weapons would do one of the follwing:

+2 MW clsoe combat attacks
+1 MW first strike close combat attack
+1 MW TK(1) close combat attack

Alternatively they could have an either or option (ie an extra two macro weapon attacks or an extra single titan killer attack).

From their discription they should be fearless (or asking for a transfer to an easier job, say leasion to the local sortaties nunnary).

They can also have their own captain who replaces his commander ability (only the insane follow a man with a hammer on a charge against a titan) with a one shot TK(D3) FF attack (aka the holy vortex gernade of DOOM).

I think that they should be

CODE

unit ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? type ? ?armour ? CC ? ?FF
Titan hammer ? ? ?INF ? ? ? ? 4+ ? ? ? 3+ ? 6+

weapon ? ? ? ? ? ? range ? firepower ? ?notes
terminator ? ? ? ? ?base ? ?assault ? ? ? ?MW extra attack +2
close combat ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?or
weapons ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?TK(1) extra attack +1

note: reinforced rmour, thick rear armour, fearless, teleport

unit ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? type ? ? ? ?armour ? CC ? ?FF
Titan hammer ?Character ? ? ?- ? ? ? ? ? - ? ? ? -
commander

weapon ? ? ? ? ? ? range ? firepower ? ?notes
power weapon ? base ? ? assault ? ? ?MW extra attack +1
vortex gernade ?(15cm) ?small arms ?TK(D3) one shot

note: invulnrable save, leader


0-1 per marine army with the formation consisting of 4 titan hammer units and a titan hammer commander. ?No upgrades allowed.

Points wise I would uss atabout 300pts. ?75pts less than the normal termies (with commander), but they are slow and highly specialised.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:10 pm 
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I think first stike macro represents the thunder hammers better, but I'm really not sure that the formation is neccesary.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:46 pm 
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LOL! I can't stop laughing and I'm trying to stay on my chair. I had this nice conversation ~6 hours before this thread started and the topic of the conversation was pretty much "I wonder what the next great idea will be.." and at some point this idea of terminators getting TK attacks or a bunch of MW attacks came up and here they are now. We were trying to come up with any example within the normal units that would have more than one MWCC attack since someone came up with a great idea that defilers should get 3 at least.

Anyway, since the bottle is now opened the terminator unit should probably be like 8 stands and the thunderhammers clearly should be +3 TK(2D6) first strike extra attacks. Oh and the storm shield should give a 2+RA+TRA save and 2+ invulnerable of course. Make them fearless too and they would suck without CC2+. The vortex grenade should be TK(3D6) on every enemy model within line of sight. Since the unit would be 0-1 it might cost maybe 200 points. Yeah that sounds about right.

Oh crap now I fell on the floor.. maybe 175 would be more accurate points cost?

Seriously though, formations like that are needed soon when all the new toys make their way into the game..

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:20 am 
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I'd seriously oppose giving these guys more then 1 MW attack, or TK attacks on their normal troops, to be honest. At that point they're essentially better, cheaper, Terminators useful for basically the same purpose: Kneecapping aboslutely ANYTHING they can get into melee with. Russ company? 9x 3+ MW! Baneblades? 4x MW 3+ TK(1)! Virtually anything you care to point them at they'll burtally annihilate if they can reach melee, not hard when they've already got teleportation abilities.

I think these guys would be much better suited at something like...


Thunder Hammers/CC/+1 EA MW

Notes: Invulnerable Save, RA, TRA.

Lose their FF ability completely, since they have no ranged weapons at all. Maybe with a special rule that if they land within 10cm of a War Engine they don't suffer blast-markers, as a way of representing their bias on going after titans and similar super-heavies. That'd be more then enough, and avoid making them substantially better then normal terminators against most targets. Cost? Something around 325 or so. Slight decrease due to the lack of FF/Shooting, but still extremely good at 90% of the things Terminators do usually in my experience.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:43 am 
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Hysterical comments aside the formation doesn't seem that big, why not have it as an upgrade to a terminator formation?

Swap two squads for titan hammer squads. Same stats as everyone else but they loose their FF stat in return for the extra attack becoming TK.

Alternatively make it a straight points upgrade for one squad (like scouts and sniper) that gets TK small arms (your vortex) and TK EA (your thunderhammers).

Alternatively you could make it a character upgrade for terminators to take, a chap adding TK CC, TK FF, fearless and maybe commander. 100 points.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:52 am 
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Does anyone else find the idea of thumping away at the feet of titans with big hammers just a little comical and ridiculous...?

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:50 am 
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Completely comical and ridiculous !  Why waste time with close combat weapons when you can shoot the mutha with  ranged weapons !?!?!?!?  That's the 40K mentality, all C/cbt and limited range weapons !  Not in Epic Bucko !!!   Shoot'm !!  Shoot'm all !!!!!   :angry:

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:35 am 
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What good are close combat weapons? That's easy. Void shields don't repel melee attacks. Imagine  instead that they're ripping bulkhead doors open and actually boarding the titan's access paths for its leg mechanics. Destroying hydraulics and control systems, basically killing its ability to maintain its balance. No balance=no titan! Sortof like knives in Dune, why would you knife someone when you could shoot them? Because shooting them doesn't work very well when they've got a force field!
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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:15 am 
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Close combat weapons may be all great when used for right job, but kicking titans with clumsy ants in terminator armour isnt it. Those suits wont make em ballerinas that could run and climb up moving titans leg.

If you skip game mechanics, you should also skip whole idea of getting inside shields and assaulting constantly moving titan with walking foot troops. Just get that biggest gun and blast it into pieces.

Suggestion above is hilarious indeed. There isnt anything that would support first strike, TK or extra MWs past one from power fist.
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vanvlak
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:25 am 
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(Niblebitzer @ Dec. 19 2007,08:15)
QUOTE
Close combat weapons may be all great when used for right job, but kicking titans with clumsy ants in terminator armour isnt it. Those suits wont make em ballerinas that could run and climb up moving titans leg.

That's right, you'd need a chap like Legoland or something of the sort, 'e was the pointy-eared chap, all Vulcan-like as in Mister Spock, see, in the return of the king shooting up those poor pachyderms, he could do a titan I'd say, scoot right up his trousers..... no, wait a minute, titans don't wear - oh heck.

Coffee break.  :blush:  :confuse:

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:16 am 
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Yes, planting bombs is fine but clambering on and hitting the rivets out is a bit much.

besides I still like the old beaky kneecap diorama!

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Soren
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:35 am 
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Apo is about to attract kiddies to buy more stuff to gain some weird bonuses. Epic is a game where you play with much stuff without gaining weird bonuses. :D Do you see what I mean? :;):




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vanvlak
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:36 am 
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Mind you, remember the old grey knight termie squads ganging up on the greater demons in SM2 - there was a pic in the Chaos book. Not that different....

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rpr
 Post subject: Titan hammer formations
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:44 am 
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If something like this is needed, I would make them CC 2+, inv. save and no FF/ranged attacks
(grenades have quite short range after all). The a bit better storm hammer would be reflected by upped CC, storm shield as inv. save. Could then be a bit cheaper, like 275 for 4.
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