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Instinctive Vs Disposable

BlackLegion

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:16 pm

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Only a bit.

Asembling a battleready Hierodule in 15minutes (the timeframe of an Epic turn) from nearby fauna and flora is a bit....strange. Even for Tyranids.

I liked the initial idea of swarms desolving into smaller broods as the battle progresses when the bigger things are taken out.

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Chroma

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:21 pm

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(BlackLegion @ Sep. 12 2007,22:16)

QUOTE

Only a bit.

Asembling a battleready Hierodule in 15minutes (the timeframe of an Epic turn) from nearby fauna and flora is a bit....strange. Even for Tyranids.

Well, it was only resting... it got better...

I liked the initial idea of swarms desolving into smaller broods as the battle progresses when the bigger things are taken out.

In play, at the forward edge of battle, that's almost exactly what happens in most games.

Swarms that withdraw from the action have a better chance of bringing back big things, but up at the sharp end, I'd rather spawn 6 Hormagaunts than 2 Carnifex when prepping for an assault...

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:21 am

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(BlackLegion @ Sep. 12 2007,21:16)

QUOTE

If non synapse removal is removed and spawning too, then i propose spawning only to units which have the Without Number special rule in WH40k. That will be only Termagants.

I think that Apocalypse has given Hormaguants the 'without number' special rule as well.

My gaming group, as a whole, scoffs at the 'spawning' of anything larger than infantry-sized. Even Zoanthropes & Carnifexi are looked down upon. Hierodules generate downright laughter.

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:41 am

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I think that Apocalypse has given Hormaguants the 'without number' special rule as well.

No. Apocalypse gives the "Endless Swarm" as a new special Rule "Flesh over Bullets" (=enemy runs temporary out of bullets)but both Termagants and Hormagounts profit from the "Without Number" rule, too.

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woodelf_dave

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:44 pm

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What about *GASP* fixed swarm sizes. Divided up in Small, Medium and Huge with the option to buy individual units to increase the size in the same way as Ork Warbands?

Interestingly one of the players in my gaming group suggested exactly the same thing. Would give the impression of various swarm sizes without the complexity of formation size changes mid game.

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:33 pm

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So would fixed swarm sizes still get spawning to represent the endless numbers of nids? Maybe you can only put back what is removed?

To me, spawning gives the nids their proper feel. Take spawning out and it will just be a pale comparison. Havning spawning gives the nid player some tactical ability as it lets him swell ranks where needed etc.

That said, I could support removal of larger beasties spawning if the units themselves are compensated for. e.g exocrines don't respawn but they are cheaper and harder to kill (they have heavier armour than infantry etc).

On the topic of spawning values is there a reason why a straight d6 roll wasn't chosen per swarm and catalysts/love drops/mycetic spores removed? You would get a chance of rolling 6 but you'd also get the chance of a 1 too. This would make sense to me if we went with only infantry-types getting spawning. You could even adjust armour values to reduce the effect of the mass spawn, as those troops you spawn would die like flies anyway(not that anything but gargoyles and raveners get saves anyway...)

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:45 pm

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You could even buy Spawning points at the beginning of the game. The same way as the Daemon Pool in the BlackLegion armylist works.
Call it Lesser Spawn (Infantry), Greater Spawn (Vehicles) and Mega Spawn (small War Engines) or something.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:54 pm

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(BlackLegion @ Sep. 13 2007,23:45)

QUOTE

What if each Syanpse choice gave you some spawning points that go into a common pool at the start of the game?

You could also buy extra spawning ala the Chaos lists.

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Dobbsy

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:18 am

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I thought we wanted it kept simple :laugh:

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:32 am

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*shrug*

It's much more simple than the current system.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:36 am

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I don't like the "fixed swarms" as it removes a tactical aspect from Tyranids.

To be picky, it's a strategic element, rather than tactical element.

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Soren

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:20 pm

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Fixed swarms feels wrong. Does not satisfy my feeling of an chaotic (unstructured to be precise) tyranid claw and teeth army.

Same to instictive and disposible rule. Nothing satisfying, sad but true I have no idea how to get rid of these rules. I know, not that big help.

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woodelf_dave

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:49 am

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I don't like the "fixed swarms" as it removes a tactical aspect from Tyranids. Handing off broods. While not all players use this, it still doesn't make sense to remove it.

?It does if it means we are removing a level of detail/complication that we don`t need.

What exactly is complicated in spawning? What's hard to understand? ?Nothing difficult to understand really and I agree its something that needs to be included (simply) to represent a key feature of the nids. ?However rolling for each unit and having different synapse creatures worth different spawning points just seems more complicated than it needs to.
I agree with you Hena that the different brood creatures coming back need to cost variable amounts (or the best will always come back first). For simplicity reasons can we not simply add the synapse creatures on the board to come up with some spawning dice roll and then the Nid player just brings back the creatures where he wants over the army ?

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Markconz

Post subject: Instinctive Vs Disposable

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:45 am

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Re Fixed Swarms: I like the current system rather than fixed swarms, but I would throw out the 'numbers per synapse creature' - that's an awfully clunky mechanic and we should solve any problems that arise in a more elegant role. The current synapse based system and spawning were core design concepts by Jervis and I don't think we should get rid of them.

Re: Spawning - it could be simplified down to a single dice role perhaps, and without so much variability, (eg Henas D3 vs D6 system). I think an 'adding up all synapse creatures and then distributing creatures to swarms' idea would actually be more complicated than just making a roll for each swarm. Of course ultimately this spawning issue is tied to the whole instinctive/diposable issue.

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