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The State of the Hobby
vanvlak
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:58 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Jul. 02 2007,23:20)
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If I say that the youth of today have a reduced attention span as a result of the MTV culture, would you guys send me off to a retirement home?  :D

Welcome home CS... :(  :;):  :p
The Taccomms home for the elderly and discerning wargamer.  :cool:

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Moscovian
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:44 pm 
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Hey CS,

I understand where you are coming from now.  Here is my take on corporations in general (which would explain the poor behavior of GW at least).

A company gets big and decides the best way to meet the needs of its customers is to get more capital to provide better goods or services.  This often leads to going public and issuing stocks.  But then there comes a shift when the stockholders become more important than the customer.  Decisions are made for the profit of the stockholder which are not necessarily the best for the end product/service (outsourcing, budget cuts, forcing retirement of employees, etc).  The end result with GW is a company that becomes detached from its original customer base.

The borrower is the slave of the lender.

This isn't a new concept and it doesn't explain the behavior of the smaller companies, but it does explain 'the fall' of GW in my eyes.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:30 pm 
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I'm a "purist" ... I've been collecting Epic/6mm Sci-fi since '90 ... and nothing else !  :D I think I'll start a movement - "6mm SF Prime" !!!  :)

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Otterman
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:00 pm 

(CyberShadow @ Jul. 02 2007,16:20)
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However, it seems to me that the only games that are reliable and stable right now are the ones that I am writing for my own use.

We are the grown-ups; it's our time to provide for ourselves, to make our own way.

That's why I'm so encouraged to see DRM, Exodus, Baccus, E&C, Reaver, redram, Vermis, et. al.

The main problem is there's a giant corpse rotting on top of our beloved fluff and imagery.
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netepic
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:25 pm 
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Personally, I see it as a very exciting time for the hobby.

Yes, there is more competition than ever before, and yes the technology is changing all around us. Certain games that were very popular before have waned and others have soared in popularity to eclipse them.

Does this mean that certain game types will die out? No, they'll slumber for a bit before resurfacing in an evolved fashion. Games companies that cannot adapt will slowly die out, and new blood will fill there places. I don't see wargaming as a whole decreasing in popularity, and I don't see computer games taking over. What I do see is an opportunity to draw in new gamers using new methods. How many people took up 40k after playing Dawn of War I wonder?

You have to remember there are many types of gamers. Computer games are awesome, I love them. But, you cannot stack up your computer models on your shelf, you can paint them in most modern games, but you can't easily show them off to your mates, you cannot model them without specialist skills and further more, you cannot completely change the game mechanics without specialist coding skills.

I remember fondly converting Mighty Empires to work with NetEPIC and BFG, I remember converting VOID to work with 40k models, I loved converting my 6mm Ravenwing for my Dark Angel force, making a grand master and a ravenwing librarion. Computer games cannot offer me that, when I get home from work and want to avoid a screen at all costs - I can paint miniatures. Yet, when I have a spare 30 mins and nobody is around I can whack on the computer and play a game. I embrace them both, and recognise what I enjoy about each hobby seperately.

To summerise, and end this rant, Wargaming companies can thrive, they just need to evole to embrace BOTH aspects of what is essentially two very simular hobbies.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:39 pm 
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I agree with "Van", Tac Cmd is for a more mature and discerning gamer ...  :D

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Carrington
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:15 am 
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Check out consimworld.com -- a lot of discussions there about the state of the hobby as well.  But there are some great games out, and interestingly, many of them have moved partially to the internet, via VASSAL and other functions...

Note that there are VASSAL versions of a number of miniatures games as well.

The hobby has definitely changed, and greyed....  But miniatures are hard to replace on the computer screen, and computers are DUMB opponents, so I'd hardly get too downcast..

That said, GW is probably going to go through a good amount of hard times...  But it has a pretty extortionate business model, so I can't say it's all that surprising that creative destruction should be doing its work there.
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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:25 am 
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Hi CS,

What I think is that... very simply, the market is over-inundated. The manufacturers have grown quicker than the fan base.

But, like all things, given a decent market and a little optimism, I think it will pan out in the long term.

And manufacturer's cold feet is simply an aspect of the market. Rules were always a hard way to make a profit while minis were a good way. We're seeing more and more companies use rules to market miniatures and not try to make significant profit on the rules. I see nothing wrong with that.

And I've never had it better... gaming-wise. It doesn't seem so bleak to me... even noticing the same trends that you are, CS.

Now, the one really bad thing for me is not being able to access Epicomms from work...

NOW, that's a bummer!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:13 am 
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And O-man, makes a good point about DRM, E/W, etc., and these are adult "Toys" ...

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Tas
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:43 am 
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I thought adult toys were something else entirely L4...!  ??? :D  :p




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netepic
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:07 pm 
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(Tas @ Jul. 04 2007,11:43)
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I thought adult toys were something else entirely L4...! ???? :D ?:p

My innocent mind struggles with that concept :p.

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:15 pm 
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(netepic @ Jul. 04 2007,13:07)
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(Tas @ Jul. 04 2007,11:43)
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I thought adult toys were something else entirely L4...! ???? :D ?:p

My innocent mind struggles with that concept :p.

So....someone forced you to use that avatar?  :;):

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netepic
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:27 pm 
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(blackhorizon @ Jul. 04 2007,12:15)
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So....someone forced you to use that avatar? ?:;):

It was pure torture...

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Reaver
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:57 pm 
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(netepic @ Jul. 04 2007,12:27)
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It was pure torture...

I usually have to pay extra for that... :D

Regards,
Reaver

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firestorm40k
 Post subject: The State of the Hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:04 pm 
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Hey, something's wrong here... this thread steered in to innunendo without the intervention of Otterman...

Did I miss something? ??? :confuse: :D
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