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Flame Template use
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:32 am 
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I think a flame template in Epic is fundementally silly. Lets get this straight - a jet of flame stretching what a kilometer? 500 metres? Come on.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:48 am 
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My only critique is that double-hitting a single unit with two templates is disalowed under your rules... which makes any titan / creature with multiple 'flame template' attacks disproportionately inferior.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:31 am 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 05 2007,04:32)
QUOTE
I think a flame template in Epic is fundementally silly. Lets get this straight - a jet of flame stretching what a kilometer? 500 metres? Come on.

well before they were band buy the UN the USA had a Tank Mounted one with a 200 m range, so it's not outside the relms of posiblty. :)

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:42 am 
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(Pulsar @ Apr. 05 2007,11:31)
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well before they were band buy the UN the USA had a Tank Mounted one with a 200 m range, so it's not outside the relms of posiblty. :)

Different kettle of flameable materials.

Our flame throwers throw a jet of fuel that saturates the target area, not the path.

Hence the AMTL flame weapon using bp's - its the target that get flamed, not the intervening stuff.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:47 am 
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How about Napalm bombs from aircraft... they might use a flame template.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:45 pm 
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To address the point Chris raises - should we get rid of the flame template? Or should this be another case of 'but it's kinda cool...', - like having artillery (and aircraft) hanging around on the battlefield, justified by looking good and some very unsound reasoning about 'exponential ranges'...? :D

Speaking for myself I quite like the tyranid sprays, as well as the inferno guns, and can live with the 'weird given the ground scale' problem. What about others?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:05 pm 
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I can live with it, as aesthetically it looks quite cool, even if logically it's a bit silly.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:10 pm 
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You kidding it even looks awful!

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Well... not that anyone seems to have noticed, but the Great Unclean One in the chaos lists uses a flame template.  It's official.

It's not necessarily a jet of flame.  It is anything that covers an area in the general pattern of a spray.  The actual mechanism is not important and can be napalm-like area saturation, Warp-powered spewing of bilious filth,
caustic venom projected from specialized sacs, or anything else that might reasonbly be expected to fall/float/materialize in roughly a teardrop shape.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:54 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 05 2007,10:48)
QUOTE
My only critique is that double-hitting a single unit with two templates is disalowed under your rules... which makes any titan / creature with multiple 'flame template' attacks disproportionately inferior.

The same thing happens with normal barrage weapons as well.

Not only do all templates have to be placed non-overlapping, meaning that follow-on templates have proportionately less effect, but the structure of the barrage table is such that adding additional barrage weapons is a diminishing return.

Admittedly, flame templates are less flexible than standard barrages, but that's a double whammy for standard BP weapons.

The flame template rules should be made for ease of play.  Let the optimization of weapon loads be a matter of unit design and appropriate costing.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:18 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 05 2007,08:05)
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I can live with it, as aesthetically it looks quite cool, even if logically it's a bit silly.

I agree.

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:55 pm 
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Well, I'm glad to see this is getting discussed so quickly!

Let me throw some out-lying case situations out for further discussion:

Teardrop Templates with Ignore Cover -vs- WE shielding targets behind them: Wouldn't an Ignore Cover weapon that uses a teardrop template that fires at/near a WE be able to hit any potential target beyond the WE that is "shielded" by it?  After all, isn't the intervening WE merely cover on a grander scale?

Teardrop Templates that do not touch the base/weapon of the firing unit: The original incarnation of the Ordinatus Mars (with the Sonic Disrupter?) fired a ranged BP shot except that the template was not the typical blast template but a teardrop template.  (I could be wrong, but for some reason I'm remembering that the Prism Cannon in WH40K had a similar game mechanic...)  Even if we do not use it initially, I think it be a good idea to build in the mechanic that allows for some weapons to operate in that manner.  Have the range measured from the larger end of the teardrop and the centerline of the template must point back to the center of the firing unit.

Dual firing mode weapons: Harkening back to the "good 'ol days" of 2nd ed. WH40K the multi-melta on space marine dreadnoughts were able to fire in two different modes - a "narrow focus" mode where you could place a template somewhere within range or a "wide focus" mode where you placed a teardrop template originating from the multi-melta.  If we want some play room on defining some weapons we might want to standardize the mechanincs on how this would work and how it would be noted in the unit stats.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Flame Template use
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:45 pm 
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Not the FirePrism. The ImperialHellhound can fire the FlameTemplare on range.

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