Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 262 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 18  Next

Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis

 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 520
I once played an RT fleet in a BFG campaign, and after much battling and thinking here are my conclusions:

1) What is this fleet about?

The first problem a player intending to play with RT is that their supplement states that a RT cruiser can be selected as part of any other fleet with the exception of a tyranid or necron one (Imperial and Tau fleets can get an RT cruiser for every 1500 points, but trust me, you are going to play small games with RT fleets or get blasted). Then, how can you field a pure RT fleet?

Take a close look at fleet lists: they have restrictions in the way of "you need at least this number of escorts for each capital ship" and the like. But, have they any restriction as "at least ?you must include one ship of this kind in your fleet"? and the answer is, most of the times, NO. So select a fleet, any fleet, the use your points to get only RT ships. May seem dirty and brute, but according to the rules you can do that ?:p

Now, what race should you select? if you are playing a campaign, you should select a raider fleet, as RT fleets are almost useless in pitched battles. My advice is that you select either corsairs (so that you will be able to use their special rules, and also get some ships from their list which could very well go with a themed RT fleet) or an eldar fleet (so that you will get +1 Ld). As i said, it's dirty, but totally legal.

2) Fleet composition

Now, What should you buy? You need an RT cruiser, obviously. Then you can get up to 6 dedicated escorts, and any number of useless armed transports. Let me analyze your options:

RT cruiser: it's beautiful, it's sleek, it rocks the people who played 40k first edition... but it's useless: you only have batteries, 45 cm range at most, so you have to close to your enemy AFAP. Problem is that your prow is NOT armoured, so your enemy will get hits against you at 5+ against an approaching target. If you have to "Brace for Impact!", you should begin thinking about your next RT cruiser's name. An the best of it all is that this cruiser, as it's the only capital ship on your fleet, is a magnet for enemy shooting. A shame that you must get one...

Xenos Vessel: a waste of points. Unless you are to get the advanced targeting grid (1 out of 6 chances, so very unlikely), they are too expensive for a ship of this type (compare it with iconoclast class chaos escorts... you will blush!)

Recomissioned Vessel: capable of launching a vast amount of torpedoes, cheaper and stronger than their IN equivalent. All in all, your best choice.

Auxiliary Vessel: you could buy this things(3 of them), but most of the time their are not worth the money compared with the recomissioned vessel, so, why should you bother?

Armed transport Vessels: This is your sad workhorse, the only ships you don't have any restrictions for buying them. Unfortunately, they are not really fast, their weaponry is almost useless and it is not clear what you should use them for, aside for giving your opponent something to shoot at. Unfortunately only the most foolish of your opponent will attack them instead of your dedicated escorts or your cruiser. If used for mass attacks their low cost point can male the difference, but then you will have lots of problems with explosion markers from your first lines which will slow down your progress... it can be kind of Agincourt disaster, with your merchants being the french knights. Anyway, you are most probably having to field them just for using up all of your points, so... well, maybe you can use them as a shield against ordnance (because, as you can understand, you don't have anything capable of launching fighters).

So these are my rather desperating conclussions about RT fleets. Very beautiful but mostly useless on their own :(





_________________
"It would be most ilogical if i let you kick my ass"
-Spork, son of Spoon son of Fork


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:24 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands
That's a pretty good summary. What would you suggest to improve Rogue Traders on their own.

Also, I think they are more suited for battles between 500 and 1000 pts with a storyline as in a big 1500pts battle.

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 520
Well, my main ideas are about the RT cruiser and the two dedicated escorts. Let me explain:

1) RT Cruisers: all of us had the idea that no RT cruiser should be identical to any other. It is supposed that the Xenos systems chart will give you that difference, but it's simply not true. My main idea is that you should be able to customize your RT cruiser to a greater extent than ANY other ship in the game, giving options to change weaponry, install extra equipments, get extra rolls in the xenos tech chart, etc. But as i said, this should be made in the biggest scale possible (something like "the cheapest one is like a light cruiser, the most expensive like a pocket dreadnaught").

2) Xenos vessels: more of the same. Also, there should be some  generic alien escorts (from those minor races all of we would love to see in BFG).

3) Recomissioned vessel: again, the same, but maybe only with weaponry. I mean, why is every RT going to upgrade this ancient vessels with torpedoes??

4) I would add the small, generic units found at the end of Armada as options for this fleet. You know, auxilary carriers seem to fit just too well in the description of a RT fleet...

So those are my ideas (a shame that GW will never hear them)

_________________
"It would be most ilogical if i let you kick my ass"
-Spork, son of Spoon son of Fork


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:03 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands
Well, my main ideas are about the RT cruiser and the two dedicated escorts. Let me explain:

Good?

1) RT Cruisers: all of us had the idea that no RT cruiser should be identical to any other. It is supposed that the Xenos systems chart will give you that difference, but it's simply not true. My main idea is that you should be able to customize your RT cruiser to a greater extent than ANY other ship in the game, giving options to change weaponry, install extra equipments, get extra rolls in the xenos tech chart, etc. But as i said, this should be made in the biggest scale possible (something like "the cheapest one is like a light cruiser, the most expensive like a pocket dreadnaught").
I like that approach (except for the dreadnought idea).

The thing is it would really fit into Ray?s Warrant of Trade or a cool campaign focussing on Rogue Trader(s). Where you start with x amount of credits, pimp your basic ship, then start making money. Gather escorts, more credits too pimp further, buy a bigger/other ship, etc.. Could also tie in with the (Unofficial) Privateer PDF with extended escort rules). Renown is also important, etc etc etc

But for one-off games a basic hull could be like this:

Hitpoints: 4
Speed: 15cm
Armour: 4+
Shield: 1
Turns: 45*
Turrets: 1
At xx points.

Then one can add basic hull things like:
Extra armour at +xx points
Extra shield(s) at +xx points
Turning Improvement at xx points
Etc..

Then the weapons:
1 point of battery @ 30cm for x points (cumulative), arcs at extra points.
1 point of battery @ 45cm for x points
1 point of battery @ 45cm for xx points
1 lance
etc

Then some specialities:
Extra AAF
Extra sensors
etc

Along that line? I think I can use the Angelic (featuring on this site) as an example in the following process.

2) Xenos vessels: more of the same. Also, there should be some  generic alien escorts (from those minor races all of we would love to see in BFG).
Yeah, the ones we exploited on this forum!

3) Recomissioned vessel: again, the same, but maybe only with weaponry. I mean, why is every RT going to upgrade this ancient vessels with torpedoes??
Correct. Options like batteries or lance or torp would do.

4) I would add the small, generic units found at the end of Armada as options for this fleet. You know, auxilary carriers seem to fit just too well in the description of a RT fleet...
Good plan.

So those are my ideas (a shame that GW will never hear them)
Ah..Never give up! As far as I know the Rogue Trader list is under construction, so we can always tell our opinions.

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:17 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 55
Location: USA
I'm a pretty big fan of the RT aspect of BFG, not just for whatever tactical reasons one may see in fielding such a thing but I absolutely love how easily it can deepen the plot and introduce new and strange aspects to the game that are just as asthetic as tactical.

I've actually been tossing around an idea for a specific race of Xenos that I can field as my RT's escorts based off of "Prowler" which I posted in the dry dock a few weeks back.  Even have an idea for a larger xeno ship- possibly a mercenary?  

Another thing I've been highly tempted to augment my RT fleet with is a pair of Demiurg Bastions (since in the Armada rules it states that while the Demiurg only help tau/kroot fleets with Strongholds, any fleet barring orks, Necs, and Nids can have the Bastion as a mercenary)

I look forward to seeing further developments of your plan!  Also what do you think of adding a xeno cruiser as a merc ship in a RT fleet?  It could be a Xeno captain or lord that owes the RT a BIG favor or just one that loves profit.

_________________
With the proper vacuum forces you can drain a human body of blood in 7.6 seconds.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 520
It could be a bit radical, but, why not? i mean, if there are demiurg mercenaries, there could be other merc races too!

About my ideas over "customizing" RT cruisers and escorts: Do you remember the ship-building rules at BFG magazine? they could provide some sort of guidelines for doing that. In fact, maybe you could even calculate how much does a xeno-tech roll costs!

About campaign games: i once asked "If the RT are supposed to be merchants, why can't you devise a supply line rule for all an every player? Think about a player who is expending most of his time into growing his military fleet, while his empire is expanding, so he has to set up supply lines. Then, it arrives to a point at which his merchant fleet can not bear to get enough supplies to his otuposts. What should he do? call the RT and offer him a contract for some runs. In turn, you could devise rules for supply lines "encounters" (which don't have to be only bad, as finding ork pirates anmbushed). I could even devise RT-only campaigns in which each player tries to stablish trade routes, send pirates to disturb their rivals trades, etc. It would be a lot of work, though

_________________
"It would be most ilogical if i let you kick my ass"
-Spork, son of Spoon son of Fork


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:04 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands

(Yuber Okami @ Feb. 14 2007,13:01)
QUOTE
I could even devise RT-only campaigns in which each player tries to stablish trade routes, send pirates to disturb their rivals trades, etc. It would be a lot of work, though

That would be awesome.


The 'Smotherman' Formula by Warmaster Goya could be a good guideline for customizing ships.

If you are willing we can both start work on this. I have very fond memories of Pirates! Gold.  :D

The work would be immense and maybe we are stepping into the realm of Warrant of Trade by Ray Bell (see subforum in here). Altough he also wants to hyper-detail ship rules.
I think a sort of Warrant of Trade with standard BFG rules but in a Rogue Trader setting will work better.

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Enschede. Netherlands
Hi there,

I've been lurking arround the forums for a while now. If you guys need any help devolping a RT fleet list, I'm willing to lend a hand. I've been intrigued by Rogue Traders for quite a while now and I think that they are great for fleshing out BFG games with more background and intrigue.
I made a version of a rogue trader list for myself a while back, but haven't been able to put it to the test though. It incorporates modular RT-cruisers, smaller "pirate cruisers" and several escort variants. If you like, I might be able to dig it up and post it here.

cheers
Yannic


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands
Go ahead and post it!

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 520
Yeah, let's get to work (until my girlfriends loses her nerves for seeing me doing this kind of thinks and she gets the whip :S)

_________________
"It would be most ilogical if i let you kick my ass"
-Spork, son of Spoon son of Fork


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:31 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Enschede. Netherlands
Hi guys, well I'll try to dig it up this afternoon. But first I have to study. Hopefully I can post my version this evening.

cheers

Yannic


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:34 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands
So where do we start... silly me...

By the way I think the best idea is to keep development in this thread (online) so everybody can openly contribute,...or?

One of the first things we must set:

* What are we trying to accomplish?

Then we can start filling in:
* Backgrounds (known system? New system?)
* Sector/Subsector/Planet creation (default/fast/detailed)
* Starting ships
* How does the trade system work (real economics or basic)
* How to establish a route
* How to hire pirates
* How to get credits
* How to pimp your cruiser
etc

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands

(Yannic @ Feb. 14 2007,14:31)
QUOTE
Hi guys, well I'll try to dig it up this afternoon. But first I have to study. Hopefully I can post my version this evening.

cheers

Yannic

Good. Study = Important.

Welcome on board Yannic, I hope you enjoy your stay!

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:43 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 520
I think we should:
-Stick to BFG basic rules
-For the time being use just standard sector creation
-Begin with tweaking the existing ships + inserting those races you all love
-First develop a basic economic system. When all feel that it's good enough, try to develop a more advanced one (maybe as "advanced optional rues"?)

The other things... should come a bit later

_________________
"It would be most ilogical if i let you kick my ass"
-Spork, son of Spoon son of Fork


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Netherlands
Yeah, basic starting is good.
1) check
2) I know how to create a battlefield from the rulebook but what is standard sector creation? I REALLY like to know.
3) Yup, lets wait for Yannic's list, I'll dig out smotherman and post a link. One of the main races to introduce are Tau and Demiurg. Xisor made a good Demiurg list with new ship types as well.
4) Agreed, advanced set sound okay.

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 262 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 18  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net