Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Plasma weapons
ragnarok
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
I believe that the plasma weapons are a bit sub par (even for the imperium). ?They are very destructive against light RA and heavy non RA, but their inability to hit lets them down.

At the moment we have
Plasma blast gun 45cm 2x MW2+ slow firing PBG
Plasma cannon * 60cm 4xMW4+ slow firing ?PC
Plasma destructor 90cm 4x MW3+ slow firing PD
and some uber plasma weapon O doom on the imperator ?:cool:

There stats don't seem to line up. ?Not there ranges nor number of shots, not even their to hit value.

Though the bigger two can hit more targets, it is the weaker and shorter ranged scout weapon that has the better to hit value per shot.

The simplest solution would be that they were all 2x MW 2+ shots, but increasing in range by 15cm each time (45cm for the PBG, 60 cm for the PC & 75cm for the PD)
However I'm not sure that people would go for a simple linear increase (though the points drop on them will help me out ?:D )

The bigger two need 4 shots to compete with the other weapons (Heck I would take a turbo laser over a 75cm 2xMW2+ slow firing weapon any day).

I also think that the destructor need something else to have another jump. ?As PBG to PC had double the shots and 1/3 extra range. ?I'm thinking make it TK(1)

Now we have
Plasma blast gun 45cm 2x MW2+ slow firing
Plasma cannon * 60cm 4xMW2+ slow firing
Plasma destructor 75cm 4x MW2+ TK(1) slow firing

differences in bold

A volcano cannon is still better anti-WE than a plasma destructor, but it is (as is the plasma cannon) now a decent anti armour and anti RA weapon.

*We need a new name for the plasma cannon as they already exist on the leman russ demolisher.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Interestlingly the PlasmaBlastGun and the PlasmaCannon where under AT1 the same weapon.

But your proposed stats look good :)

Perhabs instead of
Plasma destructor 75cm 4x MW2+ TK(1) slow firing
you could have
Plasma destructor 75cm 8x MW2+  slow firing

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:00 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
I wouldn't go more than 6x for the destructor.  With 8.  My legates warlord will have
16 MW2+ shots at 75cm
& 24 MW2+ shots at 60cm!

Now I wouldn't mind having such an alpha strike, but I'm sure some armoured company for marine tactical detachment will complain about such fire power.

ME:Right I dooubled and you're in cover.  I'll only use half my shots, that will be... 12 MW4+ shots

opponent:*whimper*

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA

(ragnarok @ Oct. 02 2006,15:38)
QUOTE
A volcano cannon is still better anti-WE than a plasma destructor, but it is (as is the plasma cannon) now a decent anti armour and anti RA weapon.

How so? Under your stats, a destructor will inflict both a higher maximum potential damage and more damage on average.

Okay, it's slow firing and shorter ranged, but I'd take the Plasma Destructor every time...
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:55 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Under modular Titan costs, these stats can be adopted.

Under the standard AMTL list, any more powerful stats would become the de-facto only worthwhile choice... the AMTL list features a lot of these significant downgrading in stats and/or 'flavour' in order to balance the weapons, in lieu of independent points costs.


You can guess which solution I prefer, just check my .sig. :)

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:07 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
Even under modular costs, the relative power and specialisation is going to be a factor. Whatever the points, I would expect the volcano cannon to be a better titan killer than any of the plasma weapons (well, excluding the Imperator-class weapons anyway).

It is also a real bitch when working out points. You need to avoid the "Starcannon" example: a weapon that is so versatile that it is a de facto choice. Of course, you can simply up the points, but that's very tricky to balance because it only becomes apparent how valuble the vesitility is over a great number of games.

So with the proposed stats above, you'd have to point the Plasma Destructor very high for me to consider the Volcano Cannon instead. That said, Slow Firing would give me pause, but even then I would probably go for the Destructor.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:40 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
While I think stat increases are justified, I don't think we should go to TK(1) on the Plasma Destructor.

Going to 2+ to-hit and increasing the range/number of shots would be a more specific role than also giving it TK(1) (Which would indeed nessesitate an enourmous price). I'm thinking 6 shots at 90cm.




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:14 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
Having played with the numbers on excel, I agree that the plasma weapons have a better chance to hit there target than a volcano cannon.

An alpha strike has a probability of 1.01 of doing any damage, and a normal 2 shot attack has a probability of 0.97., compared to the volcano cannons 0.87.

The plasma weapons also have more chance or doing more damage (according to my maths).

However the question is, does the volcano cannons extra range and lower cost (compared to the plasma destructor) make up for the latters killing potential.

If not the PD will need to be fixed.

I'm still not that comfortable with giving it 6x MW2+, though perhaps at a reduced range.

One thing that I think might work is to keep the TK(1), but reduce its range to 60cm.

This way we have
volcano cannon: long range WE sniper
plasma destructor: mid range kill them all
melta cannon: They just haven't got the hint yet.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
Well in 40K the plasma blastgun is a TK(D3). so one of ther family should have it in epic. ?just for consistance.  :D

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:12 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
I see the various Plasma weapons as all having the same general power (ability to do damage), the difference in the sizes being in number of shots and range.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:33 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
Random idea here.

What about giving the destructor disrupt, instead of Titan killer?

against most targets it wont make any differance, but it will effect those with RA.

It could repsrent tank and titan drivers going

"arh arh, plasma run away!!"

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:00 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
I either want their ability increased to match their cost, or their cost reduced to match their ability.

At the moment I don't think they are worth what you pay for them.

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Plasma weapons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:02 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
I think that going to 2+ to-hit, and Disrupt on the Destructor, should give them suitable stats?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net