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E:A  Rise of the Dracon
consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:09 am 
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I hope I'm restarting this in the right place. ?I'm not ready to let it die.

What we have so far.

Not looking to develope a well planned and balanced army list. ?I just want to develope something that could be used for scenerio games.

Using Dark Realm/DRM "Krays" for infantry and Kray grav vehicles as "engines of the gods". ?Perhaps as a limited upgrade for regular armored units. ?Most armored vehicles would be Walker type AV

They would be a race created by the Old Ones/Slann to protect the universe, but were abandoned millenia ago. ?Now they do their best to interpret how to go about their assigned task. ?They battle major threats to the Universe like Necron, Tyranids, and the genocidal Mon Keigh.


This is a race of engineered warriors created by a race more advanced than man. ?They should be at least as effective as Orks (another race created by the Old Ones).




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dafrca
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:20 am 
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(consectari @ Jul. 15 2006,18:09)
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I hope I'm restarting this in the right place. ?I'm not ready to let it die.

Never let a good idea go unless your lawyer tells you to.  :p

dafrca

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:24 am 
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Input from Vermis:

They're the oldest race, haven't changed in millenia, and Saurus and Kroxigors probably wouldn't win too many pub quizzes against Orcs

Now, take a pyramid-building race, and apply it to a fantasy setting in which its leaders are giant millenia-old toads who were privy to the vast scientific and magical secrets of their spacefaring, godlike masters.  And who possess floating palanquins and 'Engines of the Gods

If thisbit of an article is anything to go by, one lizard can at least see further than it smells.

FB Lizardmen:  Most of their battles involve exterminating or repelling invaders of Lustria.  Occasionally they might travel further afield to retrieve stolen artifacts, usually from the Dark Elves, or send forces to counter some far-off threat - as in the Dark Shadows or Storm of Chaos campaigns.
Incidentally, the Lizardmen are one of the races to have established a territory on the island of Albion, during Dark Shadows.  As Albion was the Old Ones' stronghold in the north and probably still contains some of their secrets, you could argue that they're just protecting a little bit more than Lustria.

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:29 am 
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Input from Yuber Okami:

-About the Old Ones, you could make one special Old One character available to this kind of army, something like an Slann Great Mage from the old rogue trader. I mean, most of those Dracons should have become independent as the last Old Ones in their planet died, but there are other places (like in the WHFB world) where a few slann survived. Maybe you could even make a "slann cadre" formation, as some time of elite troop.

-About the vehicles, What about having the possibility to choose? maybe you could give them a standard option for wheeled vehicles, as the only kind of vehicles which dracons are available to build themselves, and make levitators available depending on how many slann does the army contain. Also, the slann created some living libraries of technological knowledgement called jokaero. Maybe you could also create a "jokaero clan" formation, which would make more levitators available to the army...

We could even try to make some stats for an slann "prehistoric" army list

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:36 am 
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Input from nealhunt regarding my suggestion of giving Chameleon Skinks teleport ability:

Regarding camo and Teleport, I think that it is being overdone as an "ambush" ability.  The first unit to use it was the Lictor.  I'm pretty much of the opinion that if the unit isn't as good as Lictors at hiding and ambushes it does not deserve Teleport.  If you start lowering the standard then it becomes arguable that other units deserve it retroactively.

I'm not sure what the skinks' level of ability is, but I suspect it's not up to Lictor standards.

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:37 am 
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Input from L4:

Just a thought, I would like to further muddy the H?0s ... an Ape-like hi-tech army like in P/of the Apes ! Kinda like hairy Orks !

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:38 am 
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Just a thought, I would like to further muddy the H?0s ... an Ape-like hi-tech army like in P/of the Apes ! Kinda like hairy Orks !


Def. a concept I'd like to see him pursue.  I can never have too many armies, just don't tell my wife!

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:44 am 
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More from Vermis:

Yuber Okami's Slann idea: I agree with this.  A few leading Slann would be a good idea - whether they're skinny froggies from way back when; toothy 'Slanni' from the 4th ed. 40K book; giant levitating toads; or just smarter versions of the grunts.  My reason is part of the FB fluff about the Dragon Isles - an old Lizardmen stronghold close to Ind.  The Lizardmen of Lustria and the Southlands are orderly and disciplined, under the guidance of the Slann; but the Slann of the Dragon Isles died out centuries ago and the Lizardmen there regressed to a savage, feral state.
This is a little like the current 40K fluff, in which the disappearance of the Old Ones caused their warrior race - the Krork - to 'degrade' into three-guesses-who.

Considering the role of Chameleon Skinks in FB, I keep thinking 'Sniper'.  But I have a feeling that might be as overpowering as giving them Teleport.  Perhaps as an upgrade...?

I'm not sure about Infiltrators.  It seems to be more of a pro-CC ability to me; and yes - Skinks and Chameleon Skinks would tend towards FF.  Scouts might be more appropriate.

Random idea - feel free to shoot it down: can First Strike be applied to small arms?  It could represent the Chameleon Skinks firing as the enemy takes an extra few split-seconds to draw a bead.

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:45 am 
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Vermis again:

From the SG boards:


The teleport on their wolf scouts actually represents their fantastic ability to work into forward positions on the field.

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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:46 am 
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Input from Ilushia:

Yes, yes, that's a quote from me about the space Wolves list.  

Right now the Wolf Scouts have that rule because not only are they Infiltrators but they're the most reknowned forward scouts in the Imperium at present. They often times operate for weeks or months behind enemy lines before showing themselves, so I felt it'd be appropriate for them to have Teleport. For the chameleonic lizards you could probably do fine with Scout and Infiltrators stacked together. Maybe give them First Strike as well, to give them that 'coming  out of the woodwork' feeling without giving them Teleport.

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:47 am 
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Vermis again (he's been a major help on this!):

I'm still not too hot on Infiltrators.  Yes, a greater charge range is pretty useful; but I can't help but think what'll happen to the poor little lizzies in a countercharge, if they 'sneak past' into the middle of a formation.  Especially if the countercharge bypasses the small arms' First Strike (if they'll get First Strike).
And - like I hinted - charging and getting stuck into combat just sounds unskinky.   Upgrading/adding a couple of Sniper units would be more in keeping with their FB role, IMO.

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:48 am 
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more from Legion 4:

I think 6mm Hi-tech Apes would be a welcome addition !

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:49 am 
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I think 6mm Hi-tech Apes would be a welcome addition !


I agree, when will you begin work on this list?  :laugh:




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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:56 am 
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(consectari @ Jul. 15 2006,18:49)
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I think 6mm Hi-tech Apes would be a welcome addition !


I agree, when will you begin work on this list? ?:laugh:

Way to deligate!

dafrca

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:21 am 
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Remember, doubling your assault-move for Infiltrate doesn't require you to get into Base to Base contact to do! Ask the people who use Warp Spiders sometime how effective Infiltrate and Fire-Fight First-Strike can be. It's a very scary combination.

I could see something like this:

"Skinks.
Move: 15cm. Armor: 5+. FF: 4+. CC: 6+
Weapons:
Long Rifles. Range: 30cm. AP 5+. Sniper
Notes:
First Strike, Infiltrators, Scouts."

I think that'd work wonderfully to catch the idea of a unit which can stealth it's way around. The only reason I gave Wolf Scouts the Teleport ability is that they are arguably BETTER then Lictors when it comes to being able to infiltrate in 40K scale (And in the fluff they do bizarre and insane things like sneak past Night Lord lines and spend months hunting and tracking down Tyranids on infested planets). And Teleport really captures the 'feel' of the 'Behind Enemy Lines' rule from 40K very very well in Epic. For something like camo-skinks, I think the above list would work perfectly well. The 5+ armor save, in this case, represents that they're always able to blend in with their backgrounds well enough to make it difficult to target/kill them. Since I can't imagine a group which relies on natural camo-colorings being heavily armored.
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