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Producable scratch-built epic army?
Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:38 am 
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Haven't got the link ATM. but it was submitted in last year's EpiComp painting competition. Battleforce IIRC.

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:50 am 
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Basically I agree with what's already been said. Producing infantry is extremely time consuming and can be expensive depending on the materials used. The Dark Angles army I'm working on took days to convert even a couple of squads and that was converting and not scratch building mind you. I'd definitely recommand that you buy the infantry finished. It doesn't have to be very expensive if you buy from someone else than GW and don't care about the quality.

Vehicles make more sense to scratch build and they are also much easier to cast if you want to do that. The whole IP issue is a real quagmire but I'd say that if you walk up to a GW employee with a tank that in every respect look like something GW has produced, tells him that you've recast these models and sell them by the bucketload on E-bay etc. then you'd probably be in trouble. However if you make something of your own, for your personal use and aren't too loud about the whole recasting thing then I doubt anyone in their right mind would have a problem with it.

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:52 am 
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Not to discourage you from doing this, but scratch building an army usually takes more time and money than buying a regular army.  Though that does vary based on your standards.  I have a friend who built an incredible Necron army almost entirely from scratch.  It took quite a while and most all of the models were cast in resin from the original he made.  But now he has a necron force that looks like it was profesionally produced.  I am trying to convince him to let me take pictures of it and post them on my site for everyone to see.

-Audrey


Please convince him! :cool:

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Frecus
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:49 pm 
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Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 28 April 2006 (09:52))
Please convince him! :cool:

Indeed, convince him. I like necron pics, as they're rare.

For the other replies:

The thing with this idea was, that infantry was more like a new challenge. I've got a couple dozen paper ork vehicles downstairs, but, the quality was lacking (especially the buggies, who were too big). Now I want to go on, with something relatively challenging, like infantry.

I'm not sure if I could cast... I can sculpt a decent model at this scale with GS (maybe even better than GW if I tried). The main problem is probably the casting tools and materials, which are likely expensive and hard to get...

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:00 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 28 April 2006 (08:02))
Quote (zap123 @ 27 April 2006 (20:51))
I do think there's a fairly big difference between making a commercial product that very closely resembles another companies' miniature range, and a person making copies of a OOP mini for personal use.  Hard for the company to argue they are loosing sales if it is OOP....

People rationalize many things and if you feel it is OK to do it, I can not stop you.  :/

I just said I would not do it, for me stealing is stealing OOP or not.

What others do is up to them, I am talkingabout how I feel and how I elect to act.

dafrca

Yes and no.

From a US legal standpoint there is a different between ripping off someone's IP when it is a current commercial product and ripping it off when it is not in commercial use.  There are 2 components to damages - actual damages and punitive damages.

Actual damages are based mostly on lost sales to the real owner.  That's not just "direct" sales, which would obviously be none if the model is not in print, but imputed sales which the owner could theoretically have brought to market if the commercial viability were not damaged by piracy.

Punitive damages are both removal of profit by the pirating entity and excess beyond that to work as a preventative measure.

It's still technically illegal, but in the case of reproducing a long out-of-print model for personal use the damage to the owner is practically non-existent.  That not only means that in pragmatic terms there are likely few legal penalties, but in more philosophical terms it raises the question about whether it is truly "theft" if there is no material damage.  Obviously, the fact that those considerations are taken into account in court judgements means that the law also recognizes that the question  of whether it's truly theft exists.

Personally, I'm still not comfortable doing it and won't do so but for those that will make copies of oop stuff, I consider it more of a difference of opinion than opposite sides of a clear line.

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zap123
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:02 pm 
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Ethical issues aside, casting 6mm infantry is probably going to be rather hard, and pretty expensive.  I've tried making stands to use as the Tyranid Devourers...20x20mm base with lotsa wriggly things on it....pretty simple you'd think.  By the time I made a mold that produced consistent, acceptable results and cast 20 copies I'd probably used $15-20 worth of RTV and resin.  Trying to do infantry type poses is going to be heaps more "interesting"  :o0

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Yuber Okami
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:17 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 28 April 2006 (08:03))
Did you put photos up of your paper minis? If so, can you direct me to them. I would like to see them.

If you have not yet done so, please do. It would be fun to see what others have done.

dafrca

There is a very low quality photo of most of them at the epicompetitions gallery. The design is good, but i have to admit that the colour schemes are shameful... it's because i used adobe illustrator to dessign them, and i seem to be unable to paint the drawings in that aplication, so i had to use another, very sofisticated program: microsoft paint...


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dafrca
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:19 pm 
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Quote (zap123 @ 28 April 2006 (08:02))
Ethical issues aside, casting 6mm infantry is probably going to be rather hard, and pretty expensive. ?I've tried making stands to use as the Tyranid Devourers...20x20mm base with lotsa wriggly things on it....pretty simple you'd think. ?By the time I made a mold that produced consistent, acceptable results and cast 20 copies I'd probably used $15-20 worth of RTV and resin. ?Trying to do infantry type poses is going to be heaps more "interesting" ?:o0

I agree 100% with you on this.

My attempts have, so far, always cost me much more then what minis cost. I could show you the $45 grav "flying brick" but I tossed it.  :blush:

The details did not show up. Man was I sad/mad.  :8:

dafrca

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dafrca
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:21 pm 
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Quote (Yuber Okami @ 28 April 2006 (08:17))
Quote (dafrca @ 28 April 2006 (08:03))
Did you put photos up of your paper minis? If so, can you direct me to them. I would like to see them.

If you have not yet done so, please do. It would be fun to see what others have done.

dafrca

There is a very low quality photo of most of them at the epicompetitions gallery. The design is good, but i have to admit that the colour schemes are shameful... it's because i used adobe illustrator to dessign them, and i seem to be unable to paint the drawings in that aplication, so i had to use another, very sofisticated program: microsoft paint...


I like them. They look nice. Well done.

Must admit I like the WWI taqnks the best.  :cool:

dafrca

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:12 pm 
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Wow!  Where did the designs come from?
Any chance of a flyers close up?

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javelin98
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:42 am 
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If you're looking for cheap and unlimited infantry, try these:

http://groups.msn.com/SculptingMiniatur ... nited.msnw

Scroll down about 2/3 of the way, to the 6mm "smoosh" molds.

$20 for the mold, and you can make as much as you like.




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dafrca
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:08 am 
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Quote (javelin98 @ 28 April 2006 (18:42))
If you're looking for cheap and unlimited infantry, try these:

http://groups.msn.com/SculptingMiniatur ... nited.msnw

Scroll down about 2/3 of the way, to the 6mm "smoosh" molds.

$20 for the mold, and you can make as much as you like.

Not a bad idea he has going there.  :)

Now to get him to do 15mm molds.  :alien:

dafrca

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primarch
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:12 am 
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Hi!

Issues and feelings regarding recasting are plentiful and often passionate across the many minis forums. Some see it as black and white, others in grey. The law in the US is, IMO, purposefully ambiguous. Its more a matter of who has more money to press their legal case than any real issue with "right or wrong".

The reality is for every one person that recasts thats tries to make a profit (usually via ebay), there are probably two that you'll never hear about, becuase they do it for their own use or a closed group of friends.

Like piracy of software and music, this is something that will always be around and is next to impossible to eradicate.

Primarch

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Yuber Okami
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:04 am 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 28 April 2006 (21:12))
Wow! ?Where did the designs come from?
Any chance of a flyers close up?

Well, the designs came from my mind (although SOMEONE has posted most of them at paperworlds putting himself as the author, but he did it after i joined a yahoo group of papermodeler wargamers in which i distributed those models clearly stating that "you can post them anywhere you want as far as it's free and you give me proper credit"...:angry:

There are two very low quality photos of the flyers (the only flyers i'm proud about are the squat gyrocopters i made for a friend of mine... like the leviathan...)





Also, don't you really like my hydra???



:blush: ?




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:23 am 
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Are the barrels plastic or paper?

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