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Producable scratch-built epic army?

 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:28 pm 
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I have been wondering for quite a while (as I'm cheap, and rarely have more money than to buy a pack of GS, let alone boxed sets for my armies), how viable would it be to build my own infantry? Also, what army could I build like that?

I'd very much like to do an entire epic army, but most of my ideas look like too much work/pain (bending 4 mm of metal wire hurts!) or too expensive (simply buying an army).

So, who's smart enough to come with a viable idea for this obviously mad idea? My thoughts on maximum building time is a couple of hours per dozen stands (longer and it'd be death for my fingers & brain).

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:32 pm 
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Do you have any experience in making moulds?

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Well, I'll say that infantry models have got to be the hardest epic scale units to scratchbuild. One idea is to go buy some of those plastic cocktail swords and use the hilts as infanty. Alternately, you could use gravel, small dried flowers, or resistors from old scrap electronics. Of course, none of these will actually look like infantry (the resistors can make pretty good armatures, though).

Honestly, if you need infantry, I'm sure you can find someone to give you some. I mean, who around here doesn't have extra SMs just lying around? Surely if you have a fair sized play group (especially one with players from back in the SM/TL days) there will be more than enough SMs, ork boyz, and eldar guardians to go around.

But why not just skip the infantry altogether? I happen to know (second hand) that there are templates "out there" for making paper models of 40k-scale tanks. The funny thing about paper models is, if you set the scale factor in your print window to the appropriate value, then they magically become epic-scale paper model templates.

I happen to know (first hand) that the paper models are nearly indistinguishable from the metal ones (if they're made carefully), and I happen to know (second hand) that making them carefully isn't too difficult. All you need is some heavy-weight paper, a computer, and a printer.

So, keeping all that in mind, I would suggest making an IG or SM armored company out of paper tanks and don't worry about the infantry.

edit ps: Nice eldar space craft, BTW. I find that those small sample spoons they use at the 31-flavors make pretty good eldar prows (though they still look like spoons).






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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Not to discourage you from doing this, but scratch building an army usually takes more time and money than buying a regular army.  Though that does vary based on your standards.  I have a friend who built an incredible Necron army almost entirely from scratch.  It took quite a while and most all of the models were cast in resin from the original he made.  But now he has a necron force that looks like it was profesionally produced.  I am trying to convince him to let me take pictures of it and post them on my site for everyone to see.

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:48 pm 
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If I had the capability, I would make moulds from minis I already own and cast my own minis.

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:37 pm 
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Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 27 April 2006 (08:48))
If I had the capability, I would make moulds from minis I already own and cast my own minis.

I just can not do this. For me, recasting is stealing and I can't do that.

Besides, if I do not respect someone elses IP, then how can I expect others to respect mine.

As for creating my own minis, I agree with Audrey. It cost me more for a poor looking tank, then it would have cost me to just buy the real deal.

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:07 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 27 April 2006 (18:37))
Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 27 April 2006 (08:48))
If I had the capability, I would make moulds from minis I already own and cast my own minis.

I just can not do this. For me, recasting is stealing and I can't do that.

Besides, if I do not respect someone elses IP, then how can I expect others to respect mine.

Let me amend that statement. I would do it only for OOP minis that I couldn't get off ebay and I wouldn't do it for profit, just personal use.

Of course for me it's a moot point anyway. I've never tried creating molds in the first place.





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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:06 pm 
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Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 27 April 2006 (11:07))
Quote (dafrca @ 27 April 2006 (18:37))
Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 27 April 2006 (08:48))
If I had the capability, I would make moulds from minis I already own and cast my own minis.

I just can not do this. For me, recasting is stealing and I can't do that.

Besides, if I do not respect someone elses IP, then how can I expect others to respect mine.

Let me amend that statement. I would do it only for OOP minis that I couldn't get off ebay and I wouldn't do it for profit, just personal use.

Of course for me it's a moot point anyway. I've never tried creating molds in the first place.

That's cool, I did ot mean to slam you in particular. I just would rather do what others have done and create your own vision and produce minis that way.  :D

Oh and casting is not that hard once you have someone help you the first couple of times. What I need help with is the sculpting, now that is hard.  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:20 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 27 April 2006 (21:06))
What I need help with is the sculpting, now that is hard. ?:laugh:

dafrca

That's why I haven't tried it.  :D

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Strictly speaking, if one were to sculpt their own models, and they were made to match (but not necessarily duplicate) existing GW models, wouldn't you still be infringing on GW IP?

I mean, those paper tanks I talked about infringe on GW IP, even though you have to actually build them yourself, right?

Personally, I have no problem with duping minis - except that it generally results in inferrior product (which is enough to prevent me from doing it when "legal" models are available). Epic-scale infantry is especially prone to problems, due to the small size (resin breaks too easily, and stronger casting materials don't always flow easily into the small model cavities).


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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:00 am 
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Quote (semajnollissor @ 27 April 2006 (13:22))
Strictly speaking, if one were to sculpt their own models, and they were made to match (but not necessarily duplicate) existing GW models, wouldn't you still be infringing on GW IP?

I can only say that the two court cases I know about, the rule of thumb the court used was "Would a reasonable person think your product was the other guys product?".

I can not think of the name of the one company that had to stop selling their Orks (called something else) is that they looked so much like GW orks there was almost no differance. The court said they were too much alike. So it would depend how close you got.

But in the end, if you stick someone elses mini in and make a mould there is no doubt you are taking their IP.


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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:51 am 
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I do think there's a fairly big difference between making a commercial product that very closely resembles another companies' miniature range, and a person making copies of a OOP mini for personal use.  Hard for the company to argue they are loosing sales if it is OOP....

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:47 am 
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EHEM...
I have had almost the same problem as you, so there's how i managed it: for an IG army, i got mine infantry from GW in a time it was at a very good price, namely during SM second edition, then made PAPER models for the vehicles: i made hydras, leman russes, a WW I tank (which i counted as chimeras, as i liked the design) and even a Leviathan. Now, if i were to do that thing again, i would buy 6 mm soldiers from any other company (maybe spanish civil war soldiers from irregular miniatures) to make up the infantry, and again use paper models for the vehicles. It doesn't take much money nor time for making papermodels, it only takes some work when you design them. And if GW were to say anything about me making papermodels of their vehicles, i would simply design another vehicles of the same function, the use the "count as" rule :)

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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:02 am 
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Quote (zap123 @ 27 April 2006 (20:51))
I do think there's a fairly big difference between making a commercial product that very closely resembles another companies' miniature range, and a person making copies of a OOP mini for personal use. ?Hard for the company to argue they are loosing sales if it is OOP....

People rationalize many things and if you feel it is OK to do it, I can not stop you. ?:/

I just said I would not do it, for me stealing is stealing OOP or not.

What others do is up to them, I am talkingabout how I feel and how I elect to act.

dafrca





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 Post subject: Producable scratch-built epic army?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:03 am 
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Quote (Yuber Okami @ 27 April 2006 (21:47))
EHEM...
I have had almost the same problem as you, so there's how i managed it: for an IG army, i got mine infantry from GW in a time it was at a very good price, namely during SM second edition, then made PAPER models for the vehicles: i made hydras, leman russes, a WW I tank (which i counted as chimeras, as i liked the design) and even a Leviathan. Now, if i were to do that thing again, i would buy 6 mm soldiers from any other company (maybe spanish civil war soldiers from irregular miniatures) to make up the infantry, and again use paper models for the vehicles. It doesn't take much money nor time for making papermodels, it only takes some work when you design them. And if GW were to say anything about me making papermodels of their vehicles, i would simply design another vehicles of the same function, the use the "count as" rule :)

Did you put photos up of your paper minis? If so, can you direct me to them. I would like to see them.

If you have not yet done so, please do. It would be fun to see what others have done.

dafrca

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