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vanvlak

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:12 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta

.... something I'm wondering about is sentinels transported by valkyries. Is that in IA3? I'll have to go back and look. I knew they could transport Stormtroopers, tarantulas, and those remote ordinance machines... but that was all I was aware of. Just generally speaking here - 40K sentinels seem big for my 40K valkyrie cargo bay in back when I hold them side by side. I'd bet the Sentinel with legs all folded up and bent as far back as possible, and telescoped down to the shortest length, could fit (1 Sentinel per Valk, of course). A special lightweight lanky Elysian-model Sentinel would be nice too... _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?

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Tactica

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:15 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Quote (vanvlak @ 20 Feb. 2006 (14:12)) .... something I'm wondering about is sentinels transported by valkyries. Is that in IA3? I'll have to go back and look. I knew they could transport Stormtroopers, tarantulas, and those remote ordinance machines... but that was all I was aware of. Just generally speaking here - 40K sentinels seem big for my 40K valkyrie cargo bay in back when I hold them side by side. I'd bet the Sentinel with legs all folded up and bent as far back as possible, and telescoped down to the shortest length, could fit (1 Sentinel per Valk, of course). A special lightweight lanky Elysian-model Sentinel would be nice too... Vanvalak, True... but then I can't help but wonder how 'rapid deploy' that thing is. Almost seems like you'd have to unload it, then transform it into the appropriate shape and hook up the necessary hydrolics, then man the thing. My understanding was that in a drop force, the Sentinels were grav-chute dropped from lower atmosphere fliers much larger than Valkyries so they could land battle ready like the rest of the force. I need to go read IA3 Elysians again I think... blow the cobwebs off of the archives in my head regarding all things Elysians since the list looks like its going to get some legs... Much to my liking by the way Honda!! _________________ Rob

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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Honda, OK, made it through all three pages here. I didn't know you had championed this cause. I'm glad to hear someone is going to work on this one. I?ve been interested in an airmobile IG since the Elysians were first mentioned in the 40K Armageddon campaign. I just didn?t want to model them back then. When I heard the FW was going to come out with them, I was overjoyed?until I saw the price. Now in Epic, I feel like I can truly field them and use them in a way that suits their capabilities. There?s part of me that has a deathwish to field them in 40K somehow, but that?s another story for another time. Elysians are something I'm ironically not much of a fan of at 40K scale, but have always liked the idea of them with the advent of Vulture and Vakyrie models in E:A. ? So cheers for the effort.

Unfortunately, I must find myself in the ?fan boy? category when it comes to these models, regardless of the scale. I just love ?em.


Not withstanding the valuable critiques you've already received, something I'm wondering about is sentinels transported by valkyries.

Is that in IA3? I'll have to go back and look. I knew they could transport Stormtroopers, tarantulas, and those remote ordinance machines... but that was all I was aware of.


Yes, a Valkyrie can transport a single Sentinel or they can deep strike.


Just generally speaking here - 40K sentinels seem big for my 40K valkyrie cargo bay in back when I hold them side by side.


There you go doing that ?reality? thing again. I thought I warned you about that before. Remember, we?re playing with toy soldiers.


This 'Company Upgrades' section has me scratching my head currently.


Quote

Elysian Drop Troop Company Upgrades
(Three may be taken per Drop Troop Company)

Fire Support Platoon, 4 x Fire Support units, 100 points
Infantry Platoon, 6 x Infantry units, 150 points
Snipers, 2 x Sniper units, 50 points

Note: These units may purchase Valkyrie transport vehicles. Each Valkyrie costs 40 points. You may take enough Valkyries to transport the whole formation if any are taken, but you may not take more than one Valkyrie per two units in the formation.

If Valkyrie transport is not purchased, then these units may teleport.



Fire Support Platoon, 4 x Fire Support units, 100 points
So would it be legal for me to add fire support (essentially heavy teams) to my storm trooper company?


This is why you guys are looking at this. Stormtroopers do not get any upgrades. I didn?t realize that when I moved them into the company section that some might think that they?d get them. So I?ll update the list. Good catch!


Infantry Platoon, 6 x Infantry units, 150 points
If these can be added to Elysians or storm troopers - and assuming elisians have different stats that storm troopers - are these run of the mill infantry elisians or are these the storm trooper stats?

I would think you could break these down into 'elisian infantry' upgrade and then have a seperate upgrade that is 'storm trooper infantry' upgrade.


So these are only for Elysian troops and I will correct that.


Snipers, 2 x Sniper units, 50 points
Do these fit in this army? At 40K scale, I think they do have them in there... but at this scale things change. This doesn't sit right with me yet if its to be fielded in such a small upgrade.


I added these because they are modeled at the 40K scale (included in the Elysian list) and I liked the flavor they added. Via my Tau Pathfinders, I?m learning to really like the Sniper ability and I?m thinking that including snipers might be one way for the Elysians to take on Tyranids as well as other lists where leaders/characters are featured.


On the other hand, Ogryns would fit better in this list. They support the steel legion and would seem to be a combat element that could be useful to the Elysians... LOL, I don't think they would ride in a valkyrie without a commissar though. Even then, they have that funny "Its dark in there" rule in 40K when it comes to riding in chimeras. Maybe they aren't good for this list at all after all.


If you go back to look at the approach I took, I am modeling the Elysians as close as to how they were depicted in IA3 as I possibly can. That means, not adding in other stuff to make them better if they are challenged in a particular area. This won?t be a super tournament list. It might be competitive against some armies. In particular, I wonder about lists that can just steam roller the infantry. This list is all about mobility, so it might end up being a super scenario list. I don?t know, that?s why I want others to play it and beat on it.

However, one thing I am pretty adamant about and that is that how they are depicted in IA3 is how I want them to operate. It will save an awful lot of debating if there?s ever a question on what I?m doing. I can just point to the source and say, ?this is why I did it this way?.


I guess the points I'm going for is there seems to be a strong h-t-h elment missing from this 'rapid strike' list. These are only IG so maybe that just doesn't exist. I'll need to research the IA3 and see what I can make of it.


Yes, these guys are not going to be HtH masters. The Stormtroopers should be able to add a fair amount of assault capability, which is why I made them a company instead of leaving them a bolt on, but nasty HtH armies aren?t going to be too upset with the Elysians in a fist fight.


I think someone mentioned an imperial lander. Marines have such a beast that may fit in this list. I too think at this scale, the Imperials would 'bus' in a large formation of troops/LV's to suit their needs. Something other than Valkyries makes the long haul.

Imperial lander would be a good place to start I'd think. Perhaps one of the recomendations that NH mentioned would even work better - not familiar with them personally.

As Elysians are the 'drop' element, something with planetfall would be in order. Right now - there's a disjointed feel to how the spacecraft get the Valkyries onto the field. That conduit should be defined in a list like this at this scale IMHO.


See above.


On to aircraft...


Quote

Imperial Navy Aircraft

Fighters, 2 x Thunderbolt fighters, 150 points
Bombers, 2 x Marauder bombers, 300 points



Blah... ?

What a great opportunity to leverage the 'something better' aircraft of the imperium.

Please - whatever you do - do not torcher us Imperial fans with using the same pattern planes that they put into the steel legion list!

Forgeworld after all made the Elysians - could we do them justice and use the Forgeworld aircraft? (I'm begging here!)

Elysians - if any IG force - should have a strong fighter and fighter bomber aircraft section.

I'm thinking... the updated patterns of the following
1. Thunderbolt
2. Lightning
3. Lightning Strike

(forget the thunderbolt pattern that steel legion uses - please!)

I'm not sure if the elysians would field bombers at all...
1. Maurader Bombers
2. Maurader Bomber Destroyers


I don?t mind adding the Lightning and the Marauder Destroyer at all. I think the Elysians are going to need something to deal with really tough targets and they may be what?s called for.

However, I?ll leave that for a next version kind of thing. I want to get the basics down fairly solid, then we?ll add the chrome wheels.



Like Titans, I might try to see if this list could be built without any use of Superheavy bombers or Titans.


There should be some lists that absolutely munch them?maybe. Again, if they can take things like the Lightning Strike Fighter or Marauder Destroyer, then perhaps they?ll have a way to deal with them.

However, if it came down to not being able to deal with Titans very well as the one thing that would allow them to be tournament legal, then I would take that approach.



Anyway - that's my input for now. Hopefully something sticks.

PS - I have plenty of steel legion IG, so as this list gets fleshed out, I could definitely put this one to the test. I tend to play my IG much more mobile and I never leave home without one unit of Vultures and one unit of Storm Troopers in Valkyries - they are just staples to me.

PS2 - with my steel legion, I tend to rely on sturdy ground formations such as shadowswords and lemans to deal with the heaviest of armor - it will be interesting to see if the Elysians are going to be able to hold up with enemy armor heavy formations - or assault heavy armies.



Well, you don?t have to sign a release form, so get to it soldier!