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Elysian Drop Troop
Honda	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:20 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Ok, I've been thinking about this list for awhile, but I also know what happens sometimes when you do something all by yourself. So, I'd like to get peoples' initial thoughts on this list. Questions I have: 1. Stick to Elysian Drop Troops or go with the GW Harkoni (or what ever they're called in the IG codex) 2. Suggestions for the Support Sentinels. In IA3, they come with a missile pod or a big Melta. So should that equate to 1 BP for the former and some sort of MW for the latter? 3. Rather than add extra "tarantula" units for support, I just assumed that those could either be modeled using the existing support unit stats or just go with other infantry units. Does that seem Ok? 4. The all "Teleport" army. I've included that as a possibilty. Over the top? If so, why? 5. Obviously, this is a bit of a finesse list in that you have high mobility and the potential for lots of airborne firepower, but it's also very fragile (or at least I think it is). It's not a jack of all trades, more of a specialized list. Against heavily mechanized forces, it should have a tough time. Same for really good CC lists. Thoughts or concerns about that? 1. I fiddled a little bit with the unit sizes. Don't know if that is opening a can or worms or not. I could go back to the original sizes of the infantry units pretty easily. 2. Updated the cost of the Regimental HQ (01/05/06). 3. Added values for the Drop and Support Sentinels, will set cost to 125 for either version per Neal's recommendation. Weapons loadout matches the Sentinel versions as published in IA3 (01/05/06). 4. Changed text on teleporting and transports (01/05/06). 5. Updated cost of infantry drop troops to 225 (01/05/06). 6. Updated text on support formations to only apply to Elysian troops, not Stormtroopers (02/20/06). 7. I have removed the Heavy Bolter from the Drop Sentinel, but left the points the same (02/21/06). Elysian Drop Troops Army List v1.2-022106 Elysian Drop Troop armies have a strategy rating of 2. Elysian Drop Troop formations and Imperial Navy aircraft formations have an initiative rating of +2. Elysian Drop Troop Companies Regimental HQ (only one allowed), 325 points ? 1 x Supreme Command unit ? 8 x Elysian Drop infantry units ? (May purchase 5 x Valkyrie transport vehicles for + 200 points) Elysian Drop Infantry Company, 225 points ? 1 x Elysian Command unit ? 8 x Elysian Drop infantry units ? (May purchase 5 x Valkyrie transport vehicles for + 200 points) Storm Trooper Company, 350 points ? 8 x Storm Trooper units ? 4 x Valkyrie transport vehicles Elysian Drop Troop Support Formations (Two may be taken per Elysian Drop Troop Company, Stormtroopers cannot receive upgrades) Vulture Squadron, 4 x Vultures, 300 points Drop Sentinel Squadron, 4 x Sentinels, 125 points Support Sentinel Squadrons, 4 x Support Sentinels, 125 points Note: The Sentinel units may have Valkyrie transport vehicles. Each Valkyrie costs 40 points. You may take enough Valkyries to transport the whole formation if any are taken, but you may not take more than one Valkyrie per two units in the formation. If Valkyrie transport is not purchased for the Sentinel squadrons, then these units may teleport. May choose one of the following: Orbital Support, 1 x Lunar class cruiser, 150 points Orbital Support, 1 x Emperor class battleship, 300 points Elysian Drop Troop Company Upgrades (Three may be taken per Elysian Drop Troop Company, Stormtroopers cannot receive upgrades) Fire Support Platoon, 4 x Fire Support units, 100 points Infantry Platoon, 6 x Infantry units, 150 points Snipers, 2 x Sniper units, 50 points Note: These units may purchase Valkyrie transport vehicles. Each Valkyrie costs 40 points. You may take enough Valkyries to transport the whole formation if any are taken, but you may not take more than one Valkyrie per two units in the formation. If Valkyrie transport is not purchased, then these units may teleport. Imperial Navy Aircraft Fighters, 2 x Thunderbolt fighters, 150 points Bombers, 2 x Marauder bombers, 300 points Army List Notes: i. Each Elysian infantry, Sentinel, and Support units may choose to deploy from a high altitude Valkyrie drop and rely on their grav-chutes to safely reach the ground. To simulate this effect, each unit may use the Teleport special rule (2.1.17). ii. The Elysian Drop Troops use the special Commissar rule (6.4.1) available to the Steel Legion Army List. iii. Drop Sentinels are armed with a Multi-melta. The Multi-melta has a range of 15 cm and is a MW5+. Except for the different weapon, Drop Sentinels are no different than Steel Legion Sentinels. iv. Support Sentinels are armed with a Missile Launcher or Multiple Rocket pod. These weapons have a range of 45 cm and are AP5+/AT6+ weapons. Except for the different weapons, Drop Sentinels are no different than Steel Legion Sentinels. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Honda	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:20 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Ok, looks like everyone was completely "underwhelmed" with this effort. I think I'll playtest the list as is and post a batrep. Perhaps after someone sees it in action, they might be more inclined to offer an opinion. Thanx for viewing! _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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vanvlak	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:43 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta	Hi Honda, late in the day, but this list seems to have a bit in common with my pet Dark Eldar, another very light list. So: 1 - I'd personally prefer Elysian. 2 - I like the Sentinels' arms as described here. 3 - use both options - add the normal heavies, but leave the Tarantula as an option. 4 - If by teleport you mean equivalent to parachute, I agree. Another fluff variant for this same list (based on the IG codex) is a tunneller-transported army. 5 - same as for the DE - or the Catachans - use it for special scenarios, or as allies, or for a bit of sporting fun - or for modelling ambitions! 6 - play test! As for the troops, they feel ok. I'd personally remove the snipers, as these would need time to get a good location, which droppies wouldn't have, at least at first contact. I'd be sorely tempted to add IG with jump packs, from the old model range. Not to mention a nice juicy lander - this could drop troops, Sentinels, and, dare I say it - Chimerae and Hellhounds? How about slightly cheaper air support for these guys, to reflect their necessary excellent coordination with whoever is dropping them and their air fleet? cheers, and sorry for the delay, John _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?
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Legion 4	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:50 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36984 Location: Ohio - USA	I would like Epic Elysian models ... _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Steele	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:15 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am Posts: 423 Location: Duisburg , Germany	Checkout Version 1.4 at the NEW EpiCentre, in the Download Section. Cheers! Steele _________________ Quid pro Quo
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nealhunt	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:48 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	1.  I'm not familiar enough with the background to say. 2. Ditto. 3. I think just calling them fire support is fine. 4. The teleport ability is fuzzy.  More below. 5. I'm not sure that it would be that bad against armor, but it would have to be played in a certain way to work. 6. Formation sizes are fine unless playtest says otherwise. === HQ - I assume that for 500 points the Valkyries are supposed to be included? Support sentinels better have really good firepower to support a 50% point increase, like just about double. You should specify that drop units and the commanders can teleport, since you used their specific unit title.  Do you intend it that attaching non-Drop units stops the teleport, i.e. if you attach a Fire Support platoon, Fire Support units can't teleport, so the formation is land-bound? Also, do they have to buy the Valkyries to get the teleport or do they have it automatically?  If buying, it's rather expensive.  If not, it seems like it would be too cheap at 180 points for a Turn 3 objective grab. _________________ Neal
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Honda	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:50 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	HQ - I assume that for 500 points the Valkyries are supposed to be included? Oops! That is a typo. The 500 should include the transport. Support sentinels better have really good firepower to support a 50% point increase, like just about double.

Yeah, I realize that 150 points is overdoing it, but it's more of a spacer. I will put down some concrete values and then people can comment on whether or not it is over-priced.


You should specify that drop units and the commanders can teleport, since you used their specific unit title. ?Do you intend it that attaching non-Drop units stops the teleport, i.e. if you attach a Fire Support platoon, Fire Support units can't teleport, so the formation is land-bound?


I will update and state clearly what happens when "land-bound" units are included. Good catch.


Also, do they have to buy the Valkyries to get the teleport or do they have it automatically?


They do not have to buy Valkryies to get teleport. That is supposed to be part of the unit's capabilities.


?If buying, it's rather expensive. ?If not, it seems like it would be too cheap at 180 points for a Turn 3 objective grab.


Therein lies the problem.

First off, let me state that I am not in anyway married to the current costs for units. I just took a first cut at what they "might" be, assuming that other sage minds would point out where they might be long or short.

So with that being said...

To come up with the costs, I just took the regular infantry company sans vehicles, got the per unit cost and went from there.

Now, I didn't just assign things willy nilly, I also tried to look at what you get for your points.

A Drop Troop company gives you:

a) 1 x commander + 8 x infantry and the potential for a commissar

b) Upon teleporting, some proportion of troops will most likely be suppressed from receiving blast markers. This will cause a degradation in their activation rolls.

c) Upside is that it would be quite easy for them to contest objectives, forcing the opponent to go dig them out. Dug in infantry aren't necessarily the easiest thing, however, the Drop company doesn't really come with a lot of gadgets to support them, so they don't appear to be unnecessarily tough. I'll leave that for others (and playtesting) to decide.

d) I don't know if you've had a chance to put points to paper, but at 2700 pts, I was most unimpressed by what you bring to to the table. Yes, lots of goodies are available, but none of them are that cheap.

Some of the options I looked at were:

i. All Storm Trooper army: at 350 points, in 2700 pts, you get about 6 of those + the Regimental command. No Vultures, no aircraft, no AT, no AA, no Titan killing weapons. High mobility, no doubt, but low activations, and not a lot of hard units. Seems fragile. Not that that is wrong, but something to think about.

ii. Lots of teleport troops, some Vultures, Valkryie command: More troops this time, some fire power for dealing with armored formations, definitely not as mobile, with the above limitations.

So, given that, "yes", they become a cheap Turn 3 objective grab, however, if not that, then what else do they have?

I'm not disappointed with the options too much, though for some reason, I was thinking you could buy more stuff, I don't know that they need to be a whole lot more expensive either, simply because of their limitations.

Anyway, that's why I posted this for feedback, because on my own, I was struggling a bit with making the list at least appear somewhat balanced.