Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

[Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1

 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Canada
Hi!

I've revised the list to keep it up to date with 4.1 (as I said, it had been a while since I was around to focus on Epic much), the files are:

here as a Word document
and here as a Web page.

Please post any comments, sucggestions, criticism etc here, the list in this incarnaiton will recieve a baptism of fire on Wednesday!

Gary





_________________


Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers

v7.3 pdf

Human armed forces for the greater good.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:58 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
List looks interesting!

Replacing a vanquisher with a hammerhead in tank co...  hmm... Seems like a downgrade for the formaiton or a tank in a formation that can't really use it's abilities.

Seems like a hammerhead upgrade of 1-2 HH to the vulture and valkyrie squadrons would be better served. Make for some neat looking formations and all would be skimmers.

A skimmer with a bunch of 20cm moving RA tanks seems a bit out of place to me.

Why the major tau tech such as narwhal and stingray are allowed but the staple tau hammerhead formation is missing is a bit odd to me. Seems like it would be the other way around, only tau specific list would get the narwhal, stingray, and whiteshark tech.

also - I get the 'this is the red-headed step child' list as they leave the tau's skimming technology and long range rail tech at home in favor of the vulture and valkyrie skimming and the leman battle cannon... They also leave the IG's artillery at home in favor of the bleeding edge tau tech of Narwhal, stingray & Tigershark. Furthermore, they adopt these new greniders, but abandon ogryns and roughriders. Drone tech seems to be completely missing from the list - perhaps intentional but seems to clash with presence of tetra and piranha tech.

The list just doesn't quite gel for me yet as a cohesive army yet.





_________________
Rob


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:36 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 34
Some thoughts off the top of my head.

Since they do not have access to a Forge World to repair and refurbish their tanks and other equipment, I would tend to agree that the heavier IG equipment would be replaced by Tau tech.  Access to heavy IG equipment also goes against the established fluff.  The Tau see Imperial equipment as primitive and obsolite and would want it replaced as soon as feasible.  The Chimeras would definitely have been replaced by Devilfish and the Russes by Hammerheads as those are generally plentiful.  Valkries and Banedlades, being maintenance intensive would have gone away a long time ago.

I can see Tau Fire Warriors replacing Commissars in the list, their role being more of "minders" or "advisors" than actual combat infantry.

I see the lack of drones as typical since the Tau would tend to give them to Fire Warriors instead of alien auxillery units.  Am I also correct in that there's a general lack of markerlights in this army?  You might want to consider putting more in.

_________________
You people are crazy!  Crazy fruit-loops from the leftward land of silliness.  Even I couldn't make this stuff up.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Hi Guys,

When I receive free units in a game (Captured ships from the enemy, units joining my side, brain-washed enemy units, etc.), I tend to not upgrade them to my current level of tech until their existing equipment has broken down in large enough numbers.

Captured enemy equipment and troops do fine as second or third line troops with garrsion missions or as assault troops that I don't care about.

*** Why bother to upgrade troops like that to my best equipment? ***

I wouldn't upgrade them unless I needed them as a propaganda symbol or their current equipmnet was so worn dwn that they were next to useless.

In Civilization, I would keep spearmen until the modern age as a garrison units for cities in my interior.

The Tau are very pragmatic and I can see them acting in a similar manner.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
I can see how this kind of list could go down several paths, the most plausible to me though is auxilia that is strong enough as its own list, but is supported with tau tech here and there as the list army has taken casualties over time.

I would also think you might even have weapon refits on Imperial vehicles. Nothing drastic mind you, but how many hunterkiller missles did the Imperium bring with them?

I could see the vultures and valkyries with new missle types on board perhaps as an option.

Vultures and Valkyries are mainstay, but would break down over time. I think you have a neat opportunity to explore air-cav in this list as well. Devilfish and hammerhead upgrades to this formation would be something worth considering - larger air-cav foramtions that traditional steel legion list would be interesting to fun around with. A hammerhead sprinkled into the vulture and valkyries squadrons would be fun.

A pathfinder + grendedier formation in DF and Valkyries respectively could be fun to toy around with.

I could see marker light retrofits on some Imperial vehicles.

I would limit the number of actual tau formations, but like the aircaste in the list - the big IG toys just wouldn't survive the upkeep without access to the forgeworlds, the big tech would come from IG WE hybrids with tau tech, would rely on tau for the larger tech, or would abandon it all together - though the last doesn't seem very imperial minded.

Chimeras are tried and true and are easy to repair. Same with Lemans.

I could see the tau offering a single hammerhead formation on a per X formation basis to reflect they are offered in limited quantities.

I would not think swordfish, stingrays and narwhal's would make it into this list. Swordfish could probably be part of the hammerhead formations - so that might be a valid exception. The others are just too new of tech to be put into auxilia hands.

Kroot fight for anyone, so no issues there.

The grenedier base troop is an interesting.

A single FW formation in an uncommon availablity - like the hammerheads - basically 1 of these allowed for ever X other troop type would make sense.

I would have a standing rule that auxilia infantry can never use a Tau transport of any kind - even if both are available in the same formation. The auxilia just haven't mastered the tau vehicle tech enough to use it themselves.

don't know if there's any good ideas in there to think about or not... just stuff that came to mind after reading the other posts here and thinking about this list some more.

_________________
Rob


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] List version 6.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Canada
Hi!

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad I can draw some interest from you!

What I should do at this point is to emphasise the 'first-generation' aspect of this list, in the sense that those troops that this list is representing are from the first 10-20 years or so of the Kleist system's military contribution to the tau'va, and thus are not yet at the stage where their world's tech has been comprehensively upgraded to Tau levels (which would likely take another 50-100 years to establish).

Regarding the presence of various Imperial vehicles in the Kleist system, I'll refer to the following piece of fluff from the list:

These regiments were designed to take advantage of the local production facilities, which allowed for a higher proportion of carapace-armoured troops, Leman Russ battle tanks and the local variant of skimmers such as the Valkyrie and Vulture, while lacking heavy artillery or super-heavy vehicle production facilities (the new Timbra Shas?ar?tol reasoned that seeker missiles and Tau support craft would serve as a replacement)

As far as I envisage it, Kleist itself has sufficient production facilities to churn out Chimerae and Leman Russ battle tanks, Valkyries and Vultures (not all civilized worlds in the Imperium depend so heavily on the forge worlds for their tech - which would be impractical for a relatively isolated system in the Eastern Fringe to have to rely on infrequent shipments from a distant manufacturing hub), enough carapace armour to support grenadier-doctrine regiments (there would only be at most a few dozen regiments at the stage of development, most from Kleist itself, with a few from Phaeb and Garrus) as well as the ability to maintain some of the heavier vehicles left behind in the hasty evacuation.

Actually building new Baneblades, etc would take a heavy dose of reverse-engineering by the locals, but using the kind of standardised parts that an STC construct such as it would have should not be too much effort for an industrial world to manage on a small scale - remember that there are not that many SHTs on Kleist even considering the list's options in taking them!

Primitive or not, the Tau would not dispute their deadly effectiveness, any more than they can doubt the lethality of the Kroot long rifle in close quarters when wielded by their more feral allies!

Now, regarding (my current opinion) certain troop/vehicle choices:

*Hammerheads/Vanquishers: My reasoning is that since there are about 2 worlds in the Imperium - both pretty far from the Eastern Fringe - that can actually build them (and even then in small numbers), there wouldn't be any around for a tank commander on Kleist to helm. Besides, I wanted the Hammerhead there as a kind of 'status symbol' for the commander - in the manner that the Vanquisher is for Steel Legion - as a symbol of the shiny, high-tech future that awaits the Gue'Senshi (plus the Tau have a record of giving allied commanders fancier toys than their subordinates).

*Markerlights/Drones: The relative lack of Markerlights and Drones in the list is an intentional one! I want to keep the amount of either available to the human units to a minimum (the presence of Markerlight-equipped Snipers is meant as a slow introduction of the concept to an army still drawing much from the Tactica Imperium), the Pathfinders, Tetras and Piranhas are intended as those units operating with whatever drones that Narwhals, Stingrays etc are bringing to the field.

*Hammerheads: My reasoning behing the Tau's choice in supplying the Gue'Senshi with more unorthodox support options is that I believe that in a list like this a main line tank such as the Hammerhead - which may one day supplant the Leman Russ in human-allied armies - is filling the kind of role in the army that I want the Leman Russ to keep (I'm restricting the access to Devilfish for the same reason).

*Air caste choices: Formations like Barracudas, Whitesharks etc would be on call from the orbiting Kor'vattra for human regiments on the surface in a similar manner as they are available for Hunter Cadres in operation.

*Narwhals and Stingrays: For the Timbra Shas'ar'tol, the deployment of Tau formations in support of a Kleistian regiment are designed to make up for deficiencies in the human formations in the list, rather than draw main line units away from Hunter Cadres to play an unnecessary role. Gue'Senshi have no artillery (and won't be getting any) and are happy enough for now with Russes and Chimerae, so the deployment of Stingrays and Narwhals are to make use of what markerlights are present, and thus supply some anti-personnel fire (handy against Orks, Tyranids... and Guard infantry, for that manner!).

So, if you field two core formations of Kleist troops, take, for example, a Tetra Contingent and a Stingray contingent, and use them in tandem, as anti-personnel support for the human troops.

As I see it, the deployment on a particular world of, say, 2-3 regiments of Grenadiers (or Phaebian Guard, or whatever...) will accompany similar landings of several Hunter Cadres, drawing from the same support from the orbiting starships and supplied heavy units, deployed and re-deployed by the Shas'o in command of the theatre to where it is needed. A Gue'Senshi force wading through a Feral Ork mob needs a few more Hammerheads much less than it needs a few more Stingrays!

The Gue'Senshi don't have their own equivalents of Warspheres, they are reliant on the Kor'vattra and as such are more closely integrated into any strategic operation planetside. Plus, relevant Tau units will be deployed in the Kleist system as a garrison, should the Imperials have a go at reconquest somewhere doen the line!

I've just modified it so that Tetra formations as well as FW formations allow you to take Stingrays but Narwhals still require a FW formation only (and I've fixed the cost of the pathfinders!)

Does this help, or am I just crazy?

Gary





_________________


Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers

v7.3 pdf

Human armed forces for the greater good.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net