Ordinatus! |
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cx2
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Post subject: Ordinatus!  Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:47 pm |
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I think it wouold have been far more sensible to release Chaos with the Eldar, and maybe another race.
As for prices I think the basic infantry boxes are great value (astartes battle company), but after that it's a bit much. ?10 for 8 terminator stands is a bit steep. The Eldar stuff's stupid too, the warhost box has 2 stands each of 5 aspect warrior types and Biel Tan need 8 stands for a warhost, meaning you need to mix 4 types of aspect warrior in a single formation. I think it would have better to have a guardian warhost box with the guardians, jetbikes, etc. with an aspect warrior box having many more stands for a reasonable price. Also means you won't need to end up with 8 guardian warhosts and a load of other stuff just to have a full formation of one aspect type. Still better value than 40K I agree.
Plastic models don't necessarily mean it'll be cheaper. I remember when they released plastic terminators, they cost ?25 the same as the metal ones. They didn't even need to design them, they were the same ones from the last incarnation of Space Hulk!
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:36 pm |
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| Quote (Breotan @ 08 2005 Aug.,19:12) | | My adivce? ?Buy your bits off eBay. |
Agreed. I won an auction a week ago. For $13 I got a Phantom titan, 5 SM1 Imperial knights, 9 falcons and 2 warp hunters.
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primarch
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:00 am |
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 08 2005 Aug.,12:50) | | Quote (primarch @ 07 2005 Aug.,03:41) | | Whatever rules you prefer, I fail to see why the fanbase has to depend on GW to develop or maintain. I'd be perfectly happy getting minis from GW and no rules. |
I have to agree with you, Primarch. As long as we get minis from GW, I'm quite content. ? ?There are enough talented people here to write and maintain rules for E:A.
Also, I've already thought about "net Epic A" and I'm comfortable with it. ? NetEpic has already proven that fans can maintain (and improve) a set of rules for a game that is no longer produced. |
Hi!
Its a psychological thing I think.
Some people like seeing some endorsement from GW so its "official". Strange mindset, but a prevalent one.
I agree that people are more than capable of maintaining diverse epic rule versions themselves with little or no help from GW.
..but thats just me...
Primarch
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primarch
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:02 am |
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 08 2005 Aug.,15:36) | | Quote (Breotan @ 08 2005 Aug.,19:12) | | My adivce? ?Buy your bits off eBay. |
Agreed. I won an auction a week ago. For $13 I got a Phantom titan, 5 SM1 Imperial knights, 9 falcons and 2 warp hunters. |
Hi!
Very true, if not for e-bay, acquiring epic would be much more difficult.
Primarch
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cx2
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:25 am |
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The one issue I see is that if there isn't specific guidance on a single set of rules then play is restricted to people you know. Perhaps not from GW necessarily, but a sort of "council of epic gamers" to sort of have a set of accepted rules. It would stop people bringing a set of rules to a game you've never heard of, with the possibility they could be great but also that they might be biased or utter tripe.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:59 am |
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| Quote (cx2 @ 08 2005 Aug.,19:25) | | The one issue I see is that if there isn't specific guidance on a single set of rules then play is restricted to people you know. Perhaps not from GW necessarily, but a sort of "council of epic gamers" to sort of have a set of accepted rules. It would stop people bringing a set of rules to a game you've never heard of, with the possibility they could be great but also that they might be biased or utter tripe. |
This is why I insist on playing "by the book" when I go somewhere new. House rules vary in quality from group to group. If we all use the same "book" offical or net epic, it matters not, but we will always know what the rules are.
dafrca
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:22 pm |
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Always use the set of rules that work for you and your crew ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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dafrca
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:47 pm |
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| Quote (primarch @ 09 2005 Aug.,07:25) | | Yes, uniformity is good for pick up games, but its important to keep in mind that it doesnt take a game company to produce consistent rules. |
That is why I did say "If we all use the same "book" official or net epic,".
The truth is most people want the comfort of someone saying here is the ?official? word.
The funny thing is, Primarch, you forget that when someone who is not in the ?NetEpic? inner circle pulls down the latest version of some file, he does see it as the ?official? word. You see it as an ?non-company? effort. But most people do not think of it as a company thing. They think of it as an ?Official? thing. Blessed NetEpic or GW documents are both seen as Blessed by their fans and users.
Think about the success of the d20 system. How many companies produce stuff all seen as ?official? by the fans because it has the ?blessed? logo?
The Company is GW or it could be "The NetEpic development team". Both seen as those who "bless" something and say it is "official".
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
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Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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primarch
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:57 pm |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 09 2005 Aug.,12:47) | | Quote (primarch @ 09 2005 Aug.,07:25) | | Yes, uniformity is good for pick up games, but its important to keep in mind that it doesnt take a game company to produce consistent rules. |
That is why I did say "If we all use the same "book" official or net epic,".
The truth is most people want the comfort of someone saying here is the ?official? word.
The funny thing is, Primarch, you forget that when someone who is not in the ?NetEpic? inner circle pulls down the latest version of some file, he does see it as the ?official? word. You see it as an ?non-company? effort. But most people do not think of it as a company thing. They think of it as an ?Official? thing. Blessed NetEpic or GW documents are both seen as Blessed by their fans and users.
Think about the success of the d20 system. How many companies produce stuff all seen as ?official? by the fans because it has the ?blessed? logo?
The Company is GW or it could be "The NetEpic development team". Both seen as those who "bless" something and say it is "official".
dafrca |
Hi!
Very true and point taken.
I like to encourage people to use our rules as guidelines, but you are correct that some take it as "gospel". Heck, I have seen arguments around the lines of "thats not in the rules". So people do like officialty regardless of the source.
My main point is to encourage people to take control. Perhaps someday GW will support epic, but that day is not today. Its easy to try to support GW and Epic A while it is apparently still "officially supported".
Question is what will the fans due when GW "officially" pulls the plug? Lots of people will drop it just becuase the company did. But will those who put so much effort in developing the rules, what will they do?
I see dangerous parallelisms with what happened with epic 40k. Some people said they do a net version too. None ever materialized. I hear lots of talk and no concrete action.
I also wonder if that time came will there be a "civil war" amongst epic A factions? In other words, what group or person will be viewed as the "official" bearer of the torch?
Many interesting questions there.
I just feel that most are just waiting for GW to officialize the obvious - they're dumping epic again.
I think in a strange roundabout way the opening of the forums for playtest list is a good step in preserving that version and who knows it may become the sapling for a future robust NetEpic A tree.
I not so sure other efforts outside these forums will survive GW's final ditching of the system though.
Just some thoughts, time will tell. ?
Primarch
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cx2
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:19 pm |
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That's why I suggested a sort of "council of Epic gamers". Perhaps just a site with forums and a voting system to "approve" or "ratify" certain game rules, perhaps just a handful of sets of rules. This would also alleviate confusion. If you had Net Epic A, A's Epic A rules and B's Epic A rules then you'd know where you stood and could use one of these for pick up games. Note I don't think a single version would necessarily be that good an idea, having multiple approved versions would encourage development.
Just imagine a situation where there is the above set of approved lists, you decide before the battle. If not you'd arrive to find a rather bigt shock because your new opponent uses "Wally Spanker's Epic A rules V1.2, with the Air Storm modifications for aircraft".
Having a few sets of official rules would also turn the game into whatever you want. Some could be biased towards ranged fire, some assaults, with varying effectiveness for war engines and aircraft.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:23 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 09 2005 Aug.,12:57) | | Question is what will the fans due when GW "officially" pulls the plug? Lots of people will drop it just becuase the company did. |
Ah then the prices on Ebay will drop and I will gather more to my horde...
Evil I am.
But to take your point more serious, yes, there will be much fighting and many will leave or just do their own thing. That is why I believe NetEpic will keep to the status of the "main" alternative to oblivion. Fair or not, NetEpic will shine as something stable in the Chaos that will follow the ?Official? dumping by GW/SG.
EpicA is a great set of rules, but I do not see in a short time there being a development of a NetEpicA. I could be wrong, but the ?On-Line? community is not that large, and those who care enough to want to develop something is even a smaller group.
Time will tell, but I believe the ?easy? path is often the one the most people take. NetEpic is ready and willing to be played. How easy is that?
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:35 am |
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| Quote (cx2 @ 09 2005 Aug.,13:19) | | That's why I suggested a sort of "council of Epic gamers". Perhaps just a site with forums and a voting system to "approve" or "ratify" certain game rules, perhaps just a handful of sets of rules. This would also alleviate confusion. |
It is not that your idea is somehow ?Wrong?. Far from it, it is a good idea. I just do not see that as a realistic course for the short run.
One of the things a ?Company? can do is give something the seal of ?official-ness?. dafrca can create some of the best lists on the net, rules that are great, but unless there is a ?buy in? by the majority of the fans as to his official status, it is just another of a large group of fan based stuff.
One of the great things NetEpic has achieved is a buy in by the fans from the Epic40k Chaos. Enough of them have fed into the NetEpic that it has gained a level of ?Official? status. I am unsure any EpicA effort, today, could do the same. I believe it will take the ?official killing by GW to give the fan base a real enough reason to shift their view of where the official source comes from.
Just go look at the old Epic boards and see how many people put up their ?Space Marine? list for example. Not many people followed a single list until Jervis put one out.
Anyway, the bottom line for me is, I do not believe we can do a lot to pre-set-up an on line, fan based, source for a stable alternative to EpicA yet. It needs to die before we can.
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
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Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:38 am |
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Generally speaking as I have said many times before, we like the E:A rules and will use most of them. So at this point if Epic "dies", E:A and all the other Epic rule systems will be "official" for those who use them, with probably E:A and NetEpic being the most used of the "Official" rules. Hey you know there are guys out there still playing SM2, E40K, etc. ...
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primarch
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Post subject: Ordinatus! Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:11 am |
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Hi!
Its rather sad, but I agree with Dafrca, that until GW officially "kills epic", I dont think any fan effort will have the legitimacy it needs to survive.
Primarch
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