Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 185 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13  Next

Which Armies are 'overpowered' - And how to counter them

 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9623
Location: Manalapan, FL
I'd still lose, Steve ;)

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:44 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4893
Location: North Yorkshire
jimmyzimms wrote:
Whatever my opponent brings... That's always OP ;D

This ^^ and Black Legion

They have the combination of alpha strike, very good WE and some nasty special rule.

I suppose a bit like the Eldar ;)

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20886
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Dave wrote:
Ya, 4 Fire Storms would be a deterrent for that list but I'd assume they be a priority target to get the transports down. Either that or just say screw it and ram an LC right up their barrels.

Yup, a LC full of predators (which I often take) would halve their AA in one swoop, assuming it wasn't already neutered by a spacecraft barrage first. Thunderhawks follow on and pick targets almost at leisure.

I'd be interested in playing this list to see if there's something I'm missing.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1974
Location: South Yorkshire
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Dave wrote:
Ya, 4 Fire Storms would be a deterrent for that list but I'd assume they be a priority target to get the transports down. Either that or just say screw it and ram an LC right up their barrels.

Yup, a LC full of predators (which I often take) would halve their AA in one swoop, assuming it wasn't already neutered by a spacecraft barrage first. Thunderhawks follow on and pick targets almost at leisure.



The LC/Preds combo rarely has to take AA from Firestorms before possibly taking out a Falcon formation.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:44 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:42 pm
Posts: 693
Location: Bundaberg, QLD, Australia
Steve54 wrote:
I tried it last night and it's ok in our meta but certainly not a powerful build.

So do we have battle report coming of the game...pretty please...
Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd be interested in playing this list to see if there's something I'm missing.

Battle report of the game would be great, please..
Dave wrote:
Curious how the 'nid list did. Is that player here?

Looks like they came fourth and I don't think the player part of taccom...

_________________
Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 931
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
You realise this is only going to end one way right?! Its sounds a lot like the Ashes is coming to epic!!!

Seriously though, there's got to be something going here and I'd guess it's a combination of straight out meta and those f**king terrain rules. I'd have to agree though, bat reps would really be appreciated - backing it up with data and all that. We're heading into "pics or it didn't happen" territory...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:23 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:42 pm
Posts: 693
Location: Bundaberg, QLD, Australia
More light reading

http://d6addiction.blogspot.com.au/2017 ... l-tan.html

_________________
Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:36 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:42 pm
Posts: 693
Location: Bundaberg, QLD, Australia
I have ask the Australia community to do batreps, showing their issues..and I have gotten nothing..and begin the eldar AC, I need to listen to all sides and understand all sides..In that I have been discussing the BT list with the Eldar Sub-AC's,Tiny Tim and few others, for the last month roughly, with changes in mind, but like I said I'm trying to get data and when you are relining on someones word.....It hard to get a complete picture..that why I ask for Batrep for..

_________________
Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:24 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Posts: 6353
Location: Leicester UK
I know steve took activation notes from his game the other day, and I got a few pics, he's at a tournament today so we'll get our heads together soon and upload it all :)

_________________
NetEA Space Marine, Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Army Champion

NetEA Red Corsairs Army Champion

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: UK
I'm sure in the right hands eldar lists do get an easier time, though hard to quantify. I don't like to say OP, rather that some lists are easier or harder to win with against certain other lists.

That said I don't think the spears biel tan list posted is all that great - not bad but not the pinnacle IMHO. With eldar, although you have extremely high flexibility in what to field, you always have to make sacrifices. I found the description of the threats the list poses a little overblown.

For instance shining spears winning strategy on turn one. Well, firstly spears cannot assault anything but garrisons turn 1. In fact the list has no alpha strike capability at all and relatively limited ability to threaten assaults across wide areas (which most other eldar builds excel at). The plus side for a spears build is they have the SC on the board, which is a common sacrifice for other builds, but the downside is they have less impact and are easier to destroy than other aspects due to low numbers and mounted making use of terrain much harder.

Secondly foot guardians are very restricted in what they can do - terribly easy to kill unless in cover, and slow so not very good avatar delivery devices as they have to start in the deployment zone and move to where the cover is, so are quite easy to avoid.

Thirdly scorpions are not a very efficient unit points wise, though possibly underused in the UK meta. Probably due to only 2 shots and being very susceptible to spaceships, BMs, and many other units that can either shoot or assault.

Fourthly 4 firestorms is no help against air assaults really. It's extremely hard to keep falcons alive and unsurpressed, especially if you want to actually shoot with them.

I think the list would really struggle against marines, possibly horde armies too (not enough shots for decisive firefights and often those armies are better in CC than spears).

But still, it's largely nitpicking - think eldar definitely have many more good builds than other armies which makes them quite competitive.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:18 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: UK
Underpowered armies: ulani, vanaheim, alaitoc, yme loc, possibly world eaters (the only chaos list that isn't awesome).

However I think many armies are less 'competitive' - not underpowered but just have issues with more opponents or such like. For instance it's a bit harder for tau to win big against a fairly large range of opponents. And IMO lots of lists only have a few optimal builds which makes them appear underpowered. Guard probably fall into that category. Interestingly though plenty of other armies only have a few good builds but because those builds are hard to counter appear overpowered.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:02 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9623
Location: Manalapan, FL
As a non-tourney player for EA one thing that may be interesting to ponder is if BT is especially good at building an 'all-comers' list for a really wide variety of opponents and builds? When a tournament uses a single list format (there's other types like steamroller for example) that may mean the BT is especially well suited, perhaps? For instance, in a friendly game or testing, it's generally known "I'm playing against Eldar" (even though we try to not know build and list too if possible as to make it harder to tailor). So that being that case, maybe that aspect of needing to play 4,5,6 players with widely differing builds/list isn't readily apparent?

I mean it's pretty obvious there's some really good players inUK and in AU and that might just make it go from really hard to beat to no chance?

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20886
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote:
mounted making use of terrain much harder.


Related to Oz players allowing vehicles to touch terrain and gain a cover save without needing to take a dangerous terrain test... do they do the same for Mounted Infantry like the Shining Spears?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:34 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 6:42 am
Posts: 558
Location: Birchip, Australia
Also with all the chaos and drop podding and air assult marines.

Do you guys use scouts to screen your units? One activation to come down then 2nd to take out a scout screen then its eldars turn to wreck anything hasnt activated that dropped. If you do it later in the game then wont things be on overwatch? Air assault marines. Kk they can get passed the screen but what are they going to assault well. The army just pops up? So its 550 points to have 4 3+ FF and 2 4+ FF how are you going to take out the AA so you dont cop a blast coming in? A good player will have them set up so its super hard to suppress and take out.

_________________
I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Armies are 'overpowered'
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:32 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:21 am
Posts: 608
Location: Australia
Norto wrote:
Vehicles need to take a dt to jump in cover but spears dont they are infantry.

Also with all the chaos and drop podding and air assult marines.

Do you guys use scouts to screen your units? One activation to come down then 2nd to take out a scout screen then its eldars turn to wreck anything hasnt activated that dropped. If you do it later in the game then wont things be on overwatch? Air assault marines. Kk they can get passed the screen but what are they going to assault well. The army just pops up? So its 550 points to have 4 3+ FF and 2 4+ FF how are you going to take out the AA so you dont cop a blast coming in? A good player will have them set up so its super hard to suppress and take out.



Normally they do still take a dangerous terrain role Norto. Shinning spears are INF but they are "Mounted" and therefore take a terrain role if they want to take advantage of cover. It's how it should be played at our tournaments


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 185 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net