Hi,

I've signed up for a tournament next month and plan to run a Biel Tan army using the Epic UK list (which is allowed according to the tourney keeper) and I'm seeking some advice regarding choices. We play 5 games and the opponents are at least 2x SM, 1x IG and Orks I think.

I like the Void Spinners (who doesnt) and built me a couple to fit the old school style of my army but one question though. The Epic UK says it has a Web Portal - is this to be true? 'Cause I dont really see it in the other lists (NetEA). Thinking there's no need to include a wraith gate if the list is correct on this.

Also spirit stones on the SH seems like a good idea.

I like to include a formation of Night Spinners for some BP and a Scorpion for the MW shots but could opt for more falcons - any thoughts/experiences on this, which formations are better in the long run.

I also like the Guardian Hosts and usually go for the fully beefed w Wraith Lords and W Guards but see that the trend is toward minimalist host either only w guardians some w heavy weapons and some mounted - how is this? Do people use them to grab objective and have more options when shooting off the avatar?

Falcons right, thinking 2 formations w 2 firestorms - cant go wrong I mean?

Aspects in a Vampire is my preferred assault but could also be swayed towards a mounted Aspect troupe. My usual combo is 4x DA, 2x DR (or FD) and 2x FD Ex/Au.

I'm also consider 2x Nightwings for CAP and raids rather than a vampire (though he could fill the same role when done w drop off).

Thanks for looking!

Thomas

Working list:

Incompertus, 2925 POINTS
Biel-Tan Craftworld (Epic-UK v121013)
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AVATAR [0]

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [400]
4 Dire Avenger, 2 Dark Reaper, 2 Fire Dragon, Exarch, Autarch

GUARDIAN WARHOST [150]
Farseer, 7 Guardians

GUARDIAN WARHOST [475]
Farseer, 7 Guardians, 3 Wraithguard, 3 Wraithlords

FALCON TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm

FALCON TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm

NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners

VOID SPINNER [275]

ENGINES OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
Scorpion

NIGHTWINGS [300]
3 Nightwing Interceptors

WINDRIDER TROUPE [200]
4 Jetbike, 2 Vyper

VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]

That looks like a "cut and Paste" error on the Quick Reference sheet, if in doubt check the army codex where it has no webway portal.

Thought as much dexys, thanks. Still going to include at least one voidspinner

If you can find the extra 25 points the list could do with some rangers for screening/garrison/stalling.

That looks like a pretty good starter list. A balance of different types of units with ap/at shooting from grav tanks and scorpion, barrage from the spinners, assault power from aspects and beefed up guardians and some mobility from the bikes and aircraft.

I agree with above comment that you want some scouts, they're extremely useful for keeping your opponent at arms length (which Eldar like) and grabbing objectives. I'm a fan of the guardians+wraithguard+wraithlord unit but it is slow. You may want to consider using a webway gate and/or a storm serpent (which does have a webway gate) to deploy them. On the whole you might be a little light on speed and deployment options. However not essential eh you can simply sit the wraithguardians on your blitz on overwatch and deny your opponent 2 victory conditions. The only big change I'd suggest is adding scouts!

FYI you can see all the biel tan lists people have taken to UK tournaments here http://epic-uk.co.uk/ukepicachampionship/albyr.php

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Thanks Steve,

Yeah I have already looked at the Epic UK tourney lists and seen many/most of them use the minimal Guardian hosts. Guess they are for objectives grabbing? Otherwise, I cant really see how they should be used.

Well as per my list, it's a jack of all trades I reckon since I'm not confident enough to put all my egss in one basket.

This is the list I'm planning for next test game, a little light on AA and "only" 10 activations but versatile while packing a mean punch.

WRAITHGATE [50]

AVATAR [0]

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [600]
6 Dire Avenger, Exarch, Autarch, 2 Fire Dragon, 4 Wave Serpent

GUARDIAN WARHOST [475]
Farseer, 7 Guardians, 3 Wraithguard, 3 Wraithlords

FALCON TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm

VOID SPINNER [275]

ENGINES OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
Scorpion

WINDRIDER TROUPE [200]
4 Jetbike, 2 Vyper

RANGER TROUPE [125]
5 Ranger

NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners

NIGHTWINGS [300]
3 Nightwing Interceptors

NIGHTWINGS [300]
3 Nightwing Interceptors

"Light on AA" with 6 nightwings!? Man, I don't think you have much to worry about there! :-) I'd be tempted to drop on squadron of NWs and get either a stormserpent to get your guardians stuck in or simply some more troops on the ground. (Not sure where that leaves you on hosts though?)

2 units of nightwings does seem a lot. I'd be tempted to sub one of them out either for more aspects, a vampire, or storm serpent. That said, it's perfectly playable list so maybe just give it a crack and see how it goes.

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Interesting list!

Personally I find the Eldar generally work better with a high activation count and redundancy for key formations (like the Guardians). Consequently I would drop one of the Nightwings, and consider swopping the Scorpion for Fire Prisms (which give long range AT capabilities as well as Lance AA) or another set of Falcons.

The Upgraded Guardians are also a bit of overkill - unless you have a means of transporting them where you want them (ie Storm Serpents) you will find they can hold the centre of the table, but may not be as usefull as you intend. My personal preference is for Guardians in Wave Serpents; cheaper, more mobile, and reasonably resilient when on board. If you adopt these changes you have 125 spare for a second group of 5x Rangers, or even dropping the wraithgate and taking three groups of 4 Rangers.

The full list would look like this:
0 Avatar
50 Gate
600 Aspects in WS + Ex + Au
350 Guardians in WS
350 Guardians in WS
300 Night Wings
275 Void Sinner
250 Falcons
250 Fire Prisms / Falcons
200 WindRiders Jet Bikes
175 Night Spinners
125 Rangers
125 Rangers

That said, what is the intended strategy behind the list? For example, this is becoming a fast attack list, so you might consider dropping the Wraithgate, taking a single set of 4x Rangers and a second Windrider formation, because the Wave Serpent formations can all command these to join in assaults.

If you prefer to keep the WraithGuards, then consider a 'Gate list (two Storm Serpents, two upgrade Guardians, Wraith gate), or if you prefer an 'air assault list' then have 2-3 Vampires with good AA cover. Alternatively if you are building a 'shooty' list, upgrade the Guardians to have Heavy Weapons, use the Scorpions and build the army accordingly.

Finally, if you need the extra 50 points here or there, you could change two of the Aspects to Shining Spears (which do not use Wave Serpents).

Thanks for the inputs lads!

Ginger, I have wondered about the small Guardian hosts as they seem fragile to me but of course in Wave Serpents that's a different matter. Trouble is I've only got 6 WS in total

I do have - on the other hand - 2 Vampire Raiders and after browsing the EpicUK lists, I've looked closer at Steve Gullick's lists (wonder why). He employs a devasting drop attack (I imagine), prehaps even retaining in turn 1, first activation if he can in order to annihilate the best of what the opponent has to offer.

This is my offer on a fast attack/drop list:


ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [400] 4 Dire Avenger, 2 Fire Dragon, 2 Dark Reaper, Exarch, Autarch
ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [350] 4 Dire Avenger, 2 Fire Dragon, 2 Dark Reaper, 2 Exarch
GUARDIAN WARHOST [150] Farseer, 5 Guardians, 2 Heavy Weapon Platform
FALCON TROUPE [250] 3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
FALCON TROUPE [250] 3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
VOID SPINNER [275]
VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]
VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]
NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175] 3 Night Spinners
ENGINES OF VAUL TROUPE [250] Scorpion
AVATAR [0]
WINDRIDER TROUPE [200] 4 Jetbike, 2 Vyper
WINDRIDER TROUPE [200] 4 Jetbike, 2 Vyper
RANGER TROUPE [100] 4 Ranger

Thoughts goes to swapping the Nigth Spinners and Scorpion (my favorite model though, the old old one) for another Void Spinner and a Falcon Troupe for some Fire Prisms and then get another Ranger Troupe and beefing both up. Like this:

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [400] 4 Dire Avenger, 2 Fire Dragon, 2 Dark Reaper, Exarch, Autarch
ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [350] 4 Dire Avenger, 2 Fire Dragon, 2 Dark Reaper, 2 Exarch
GUARDIAN WARHOST [150] Farseer, 5 Guardians, 2 Heavy Weapon Platform
FALCON TROUPE [250] 3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
VOID SPINNER [275]
VOID SPINNER [275]
FIRE PRISM TROUPE [250] 3 Fire Prisms
VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]
VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]
AVATAR [0]
WINDRIDER TROUPE [200] 4 Jetbike, 2 Vyper
WINDRIDER TROUPE [200] 4 Jetbike, 2 Vyper
RANGER TROUPE [125] 5 Ranger
RANGER TROUPE [125] 5 Ranger

Deep strike and destroy MVP units w aspects (HBs also sounds fun w 2+ CC), clean up with arty fire and windriders, sniping/WE kills w falcons and prisms and defense w guardians+avatar (blitz and void spinners).

Oh and we play 3000 pts