glad we could help
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| What to do with Stigmatus Coven http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=25516 |
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| Author: | Nachthall [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Hey guys (and girls oc.) last weekend we had two epic games. One with Eldar vs. Scions of Iron and another with Stigmatus Coven vs. Scions of Iron. This is not a discussion about army building, cos I think the roles of pretty much every unit is clear so far. My problems: SC are really (really!) slow. Sadly I had not enough chimeras to make them faster, but even though the transports did not seem to be worth their points. In consequence man should take more or less naked SC with no upgrades and putting them into land transports I guess. Then there is the equal number of activations allowed to be spent on special (and really cool) units like silver towers... They have really clear roles and seem to be quite strong. But: How the hell do I get my guys doing what I command? During our game 80% of my army failed every initiative test. The result: All got shot by the Scions of Iron and after the second turn my army was destroyed, without any losses on my opponents side -.- How do I get a strategy working with the low initiative rating? Am I missing something? Even Orks can be more efficient, if used for specific tactics... |
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| Author: | Nitpick [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Do you have à detailed account of that battle? Would be interesting to see. |
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| Author: | Parintachin [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
If you really failed 80% of your initiative tests, you need new dice, not new tactics. |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
what version of the factions rule were you using? |
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| Author: | Nachthall [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
We were using the compendium 2012 lists. Think my list was sth. like this: Incompertus, 3000 POINTS Lost And The Damned (NetEA Army Compendium v20120208) ================================================== STIGMATUS COVEN [630] (Chaos Undivided), 16 Cultists, Chaos Altar, 3 Big Mutants, Daemon Prince (Arch Heretic), Icon Bearer STIGMATUS COVEN [620] (Chaos Undivided), Demagogue, 19 Cultists, 10 Chimera, Traitor Hellhound STIGMATUS COVEN [300] (Chaos Undivided), Demagogue, 11 Cultists, 4 Traitor Fire Support SLAANESH DAEMON KNIGHTS [275] 4 Daemon Knights TZEENTCH SILVER TOWERS [325] 4 Silver Towers THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts DAEMON POOL [0] ARMOURED COMPANY [400] 6 Leman Russ STIGMATUS COVEN [300] (Chaos Undivided), Demagogue, 11 Cultists, 4 Traitor Fire Support perhaps its just my dice, as I annihilated him the previous game in turn 2 with my eldar... anyway a straight tactic with 3+ initiative rolls seems to be quite difficult. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Nachthall wrote: perhaps its just my dice, as I annihilated him the previous game in turn 2 with my eldar... anyway a straight tactic with 3+ initiative rolls seems to be quite difficult. Have you read the Factions rule for the Chaos lists. Quote: 6.0.2 FACTIONS
Each formation in an army of chaos belongs to a faction that owes allegiance to one of the gods of chaos (Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch or Chaos Undivided). You must decide which faction each formation in your army belongs to before the battle and note it down on your army list. Some armies, however, follow one specific Chaos god and these armies will be noted at the top of the army list as to which Faction they follow. With the exception of those formations that Worship Chaos Undivided, the different factions do not get along well and some factions hold millennia-old hatred of each other. Although the factions will often unite under a powerful Warlord to fight a common enemy, their enmity can cause problems during a battle. This is represented by the following rules: Formations dedicated to a specific Chaos god hate formations dedicated to any other Chaos god. Formations dedicated to Chaos Undivided do not suffer from hatred and are not hated by other Factions. A formation that has no units from a hated formation within 15cm of any of its units receives a +1 modifier to its initiative test. If even if one hated unit is within 15cm then this bonus is lost. This modifier only ever applies to units that are on the battlefield; aircraft and any other formations that are not in play never receive the modifier. |
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| Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Parintachin wrote: If you really failed 80% of your initiative tests, you need new dice, not new tactics. Agreed. Poor initiative rolls (as well as abysmal armor saves) can cripple the best laid plans. |
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| Author: | Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
I have always felt that the wording on the Faction rule is awful, and that it would be much more intuitive that the activation roll be 2+ standard, with a -1 applied to the roll if a hated unit is present. As it stands, the rule presents as though the default situation is that hated units will be within 15cm, which is unrealistic It also runs the counterintuitive statement that the absence of a negative influence (a hated enemy) provides a positive effect (a bonus in leadership) as opposed to the much more easily remembered negative influence providing a negative effect |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
It was done that way because the author of the rules wanted it to be on the players to have to remember their own bonus', not to have to remember their own negatives (or having to have opponents remind or question them about it during games). If the bonus is forgotten then the player is putting themselves at a disadvantage. If the rule is done the other way around and it is forgotten then the player is putting the opponent at a disadvantage. This puts the emphasis on players to remember their own special rules to gain a bonus, instead of remembering them to gain a negative. Most would agree it is harder to get right or understand as it is but it is fairer this way. |
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| Author: | Nachthall [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Thank u guys... I read the Fraction rule once in the black legion list.... seems I didn´t got it in the LotD list... okay... then its just my fault and with a proper list, it should feel pretty much like imp. guard with some fancy chaos stuff. |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
glad we could help
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| Author: | Simulated Knave [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Quote: It was done that way because the author of the rules wanted it to be on the players to have to remember their own bonus', not to have to remember their own negatives (or having to have opponents remind or question them about it during games). If the bonus is forgotten then the player is putting themselves at a disadvantage. If the rule is done the other way around and it is forgotten then the player is putting the opponent at a disadvantage. This puts the emphasis on players to remember their own special rules to gain a bonus, instead of remembering them to gain a negative. Most would agree it is harder to get right or understand as it is but it is fairer this way. Except, at a guess, most people immediately jump to thinking of the army as 2+ with a -1 penalty, because that's the far more natural way to think of it and that's how the rule actually plays out. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What to do with Stigmatus Coven |
Simulated Knave wrote: Quote: It was done that way because the author of the rules wanted it to be on the players to have to remember their own bonus', not to have to remember their own negatives (or having to have opponents remind or question them about it during games). If the bonus is forgotten then the player is putting themselves at a disadvantage. If the rule is done the other way around and it is forgotten then the player is putting the opponent at a disadvantage. This puts the emphasis on players to remember their own special rules to gain a bonus, instead of remembering them to gain a negative. Most would agree it is harder to get right or understand as it is but it is fairer this way. Except, at a guess, most people immediately jump to thinking of the army as 2+ with a -1 penalty, because that's the far more natural way to think of it and that's how the rule actually plays out. Most probably find it easier to use that way but it's down to the player to remember bonus' to their lists activation rolls not to have to remember negative's. Then if anything is forgotten the player puts themselves at a disadvantage not their opponent. It's the same in the Ork list, they activate on a 3+ but get a bonus to certain activations.The Ork player has to remember when to apply the bonus to get the advantage, if they forget they lose that bonus. If the Orks activated on a 1+ and had a negative to certain activations and the player forgot then the player is gaining a big advantage and putting the opponent is at a disadvantage (this was wanted to be avoided). As I've stated Jervis wanted all benefits to activation rolls to have to be remembered by the player using them not the other way around, just in case anyone forgets (if they do forget they get a negative not a bonus). It may feel awkward at first but as with the Ork list it becomes second nature to use/remember after a few games. |
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