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| 'ground based' space marines http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=23267 |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu May 17, 2012 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'ground based' space marines |
So I've resisted the urge to collect space marines for a long while, but I can't hold it back any longer.... now I love thunderhawks, and I love drop pods and landing craft, however it appears that most of the UK tournament scene feels the same way, and I want to be a little different..... I'm planning on a codex marines force, painted as imperial fists (for me, the iconic epic space marines) and I want to make them less reliant on air assaults or planetfall can anyone help me construct a list? I've got the contents of the Epic40k box set minus the whirlwinds as a starting point and I've just done a deal for 4 landraiders and 6 more rhinos I'd like it to be a competetive force, but minimal aircraft (that comes later) I'd ideally like to include a good mix of units, and a good number of tanks (love my tanks!) including land raiders and razorbacks.... if some dreadnoughts could be squeezed in too, that would make me a happy chappy cheers! |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Thu May 17, 2012 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
And so it begins.... Or if your a fan of a different sci-fi series It's happened before, it will happen again... On a slightly more positive note Marines can work on the ground, but you are giving away their most valuable assets and that's flexibility and manoeuvrability. Sure rhinos are fast but the die easy, Land raiders are slower but tough. What ever happens you can't let yourself get dragged into an attrition game. You still have to try and dictate the place and timing of the important engagements, and without the deep strike threat of T'hawk troops it's tricky to pull off. Good luck, I've never managed to get it to work but others have. |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Thu May 17, 2012 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Mephiston wrote: It's happened before, it will happen again... It will surely happen again.... Man I used to know all the words to all the Brigadoom songs... |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu May 17, 2012 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
The responses in these two threads are pretty helpful for ground pounders: viewtopic.php?f=95&t=18723 viewtopic.php?f=95&t=21078 High activation count is key, and Thuderbolts help out a lot. It's mainly an engagement/mutual support kind of army. Hug terrain and deny as much firepower coming your way as possible because when you start failing saves things get tough. |
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| Author: | Tiny-Tim [ Thu May 17, 2012 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Play higher point games, I'm currently thinking of playing a 4k list with two Reavers with a BTS of terminators mounted in Land Raiders rest if the army padded out with land speeders, devastators, tacticals and scouts. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Thu May 17, 2012 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Without air assaults, you will need TBolts, Termies, Titans (Warhounds for preferencs because of their speed) and a good sprinkling of Razorbacks to provide that extra firepower and resilence. Consider Land-Raiders as upgrades rather than separate formations, make good use of cross-fire and keep moving. |
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| Author: | robbypk [ Sat May 19, 2012 4:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Kyuss, While I have seen Dave win games with ground-pounder SM armies, my feeling - shared with most on this forum - is that it's hard to win without air assets. A unit of thunderbolt fighters - at the very least - will give you the ability to lay a blast marker anywhere on the board to prep for an assault. Since SM don't have high numbers, you need to do all you can you tips the scales your way in engagements, and engage on your terms. Without taking lots of air units, I'd focus on: Warhound titans - get two Terminators Scouts - get two units Speeders |
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| Author: | CAL001 [ Sat May 19, 2012 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Mate, At CANCON here in Oz this year I ran a ground pounder army of Imperial Fists. It was a 4k tourney so I had a little room to work with. The list was effective, it is more about how you play with it than the list itself. I kept to my pre-match objectives when playing with some variation on it based on opportunities. Anyway on to the list as much as I can remember it; 1. Tac Det + Sup Comd 2 x Razorbacks Hunter 2 x Vindies 2. Tac Det+ Librarian Hunter 3. Land Raiders 4. Land Raiders 5. Predators 6. Predators 7. Landspeeders + 2 x Tornado 8. Landspeeders 9. Warhound Pack 10. Reaver Titan 11. Thunderbolts My biggest tip for ground pounders is to identify a main effort within your force and decide what objective you want it to achieve. I used the large Tac, with 2 x Land Raiders, the Reaver and a set of speeders as my main effort. That formation was able to work over most opposition and wouldn't often draw my opponents attention. This allowed my supporting effort to then achieve secondary objectives and seize on opportunities as they presented. Give yourself good air defense in both formations and you will do well. Cheers Aaron |
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| Author: | Man of kent [ Sat May 19, 2012 6:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
It's a novel idea - and you may not like it - but how about a 10th company themed list? Something like: Incompertus, 3000 POINTS Codex Marines (170711) ================================================== BIKE [200] 5 Bikes BIKE [200] 5 Bikes LAND SPEEDER [200] 5 Land Speeder LAND SPEEDER [200] 5 Land Speeder SCOUT [175] 4 Scouts plus Transport, Razorback LAS SCOUT [175] 4 Scouts plus Transport, Razorback LAS SCOUT [175] 4 Scouts plus Transport Razorback LAS DEVASTATOR [325] 4 Devastator Units plus Transport, Hunter DEVASTATOR [350] BTS 4 Devastator Units plus Transport, Hunter, Razorback LAS WARHOUND TITAN [275] 1 Warhound Titan WARHOUND TITAN [275] 1 Warhound Titan THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Could Work! Not Supreme Commander though and a rather fragile BTS... |
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| Author: | Man of kent [ Sat May 19, 2012 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Or... BIKE [200] 4 Bikes, Attack Bikes BIKE [200] 4 Bikes, Attack Bikes SCOUT [200] 4 Scouts plus Transport, 1 Las SCOUT [200] 4 Scouts plus Transport, 1x Razorback LAS SCOUT [225] 4 Scouts plus Transport, Razorback LAS, Snipers SCOUT [225] 4 Scouts plus Transport, Razorback LAS, Snipers SCOUT [150] 4 Scouts plus Transport LAND SPEEDER [200] 5 Land Speeder, LAND SPEEDER [200] 5 Land Speeder, Typhon LAND SPEEDER [200] 5 Land Speeder WARHOUND PACK [500] BTS 2 Warhound Titans THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters 2900 pts!!! : Add a SC whereever you want! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MORE scout themed! but this time a harder to kill BTS but no Flak: against some armies will reduce your thunderbolts to mostly being CAP or reactive AA but declaring CAP can be a good time waster especially eary in the game and can force your opponent to move ground forces before you start moving out. The SC upgrade might well be neccesary in this list: you can't really afford failed activations or a stalled assault. This list would all be about mutual supporting fire: using the speeders to support and prep (to make the most of their MW attacks) as well as the sniper equipped scouts (you might get lucky and remove a few crucial units before an assualt with them: I.e. grots, commisars. or even be able to go after their SC. That leaves you with the 2 remaining Razorback scouts and the bikes to do your assualting with. The Warhounds might be able to shift larger targets due to to their void shield but really you want those puppy's shooting each turn and supporting yet again. The 150pt scout formation...I'd leave on my blitz. |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Sat May 19, 2012 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
I think ground based lists can be very effective. Terminators, scouts, speeders, bikes and a tac SC. Should do fine, just make sure you use smart positioning and support your assaults. The great benefit is you will have lots of usable activations and you present lots of equally unimportant targets to your opponent. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sat May 19, 2012 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Thanks for the tips guys, I should clarify that I'm not totally averse to using a thunderhawk, I'd just prefer to not have 3 or 4 flapping about the place......as appears to be the norm in many highly competetive builds..... |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Sat May 19, 2012 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
2 seems to optimum for Thawks, though Kev has effectively used 1. |
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| Author: | robbypk [ Sat May 19, 2012 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
Another tactic you could try is using a starship bombardment and drop pods. Drop pod armies tend to be very ground-poundy and troop-heavy. The pods don't really play a role on the battlefield after they come down, so you actually don't need the drop pod models to play with them....a coin or something similar is all that is needed to mark where they come down and where troops deploy from. Also, it is generally accepted that the one of the only effective ways to use dreadnaughts is to have them come down with troops in drop pods. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu May 24, 2012 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 'ground based' space marines |
how does this look as a potential first draft? Incompertus, 3000 POINTS Codex Marines (170711) ================================================== DEVASTATOR [325] 4 Devastator Units plus Transport, Hunter DEVASTATOR [325] 4 Devastator Units plus Transport, Hunter TACTICAL [475] 6 Tactial units plus Transport, Supreme Commander, Hunter SCOUT [200] 4 Scouts plus Transport, Snipers LAND RAIDER [350] 4 Land Raiders LAND RAIDER [350] 4 Land Raiders TERMINATOR [400] 4 Terminator units, Chaplain THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters THUNDERBOLTS [150] 2 Thunderbolt Fighters WARHOUND TITAN [275] 1 Warhound Titan aside from that I have 2 of each type of predator (I assume they're better as 4 of a kind.....) and a formation of assault marines, I've also got a second warhound and third flight of thunderbolts (both on loan from my steel legion....) comments, criticisms? |
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