Tactical Command
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How to win with 20 russes
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=20910		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ulrik [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  How to win with 20 russes
A big draw of Epic over 40k is the ability to field massed tanks. The people I've seen that pick Guard for their first Epic army always starts out with one or even two Leman Russ companies. Sadly, Steel Legion with 2 Russ companies isn't a very effective army, which I think can be bad for the game - the enthusiastic new player buys, paints and fields the massed Russes which drew him into the game, only to find that he needs to scrap them and rebuild his army unless he wants to learn how to play with one arm tied behind his back.

Or at least he will if noone helps him. I've never played IG myself, what's the best way to make and play a LR-centered army? Preferably with NetEA lists.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
The best way is to use the Minervan Tank Legion army list from the Epic: Raiders supplement.

With the ability to mix and match multiple types of Leman Russ, the list is very good.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
Seconded. I've used Russ-heavy Steel Legion extensively as well, and it's good, but not as good as the Minervans.

I've got an article I wrote up somewhere around. I'll try to dig it up.

Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=95&t=19765
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
I'm curious. Given that the Minervans are better then, should they still be the same points for same unit types? Seems odd that you pay the same costs for units when you get a better army....
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
Well, even 1 Russ company is kinda underpowered in the Steel Legion army list.

They really need the different Russ types, and the formation composition changes, of the Minervan list to come into their own.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Well, even 1 Russ company is kinda underpowered in the Steel Legion army list.

They really need the different Russ types, and the formation composition changes, of the Minervan list to come into their own.

I'd be more happier with the Minervan Tank Platoon concept. 6 Tanks is large enough to require some effort to neutralise or it's combat effective, but small and cheap enough that it's not a huge commitment of resources like the Tank Company. Even without options of variations, and even paying a premium (425?), I'd consider that for a Steel Legion army. 650pts just seems too much of an investment.

Morgan Vening
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
Dobbsy wrote:
I'm curious. Given that the Minervans are better then, should they still be the same points for same unit types? Seems odd that you pay the same costs for units when you get a better army....


There's really nothing wrong with the points cost. What makes the Minervans better is the change from two Russ variants to eight. The potential roles they can play are far greater. Think of a Marine army that could take only Tacs versus one that can take Tacs, Devs, Bikes, Assault, etc.

You run into a similar situation with the superheavies, expanding from two to five types.
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
i think the large price is still a stumbling block. i've had some success running largely tank formations using brigands in my bloody hand list-work. the strategy being "choke the enemy with as much heavy RA as possible, absorb fire, break via assault/massed battlecannons, then chase down and kill with bombers"
i was somewhat down on activations untill i got a few formations dead, but it worked pretty well. i imagine it would have been quite a struggle with full priced russes*, though maybe taking the cheapos would have netted a similar result. the lascannons would have been nice...

(*though i have raised their price since then a bit)
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
when i first started playing with making lists up (we really need different verbs for list creation and list writing.) I always skipped the armoured company becuase it was so expensive.

then i saw a battle report vs orks, and it dawned on me just how tough the ac is - the sheer amount of firepower and durability looked amazing.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
The lesson to be learned is: never allow a Tank Company within 50cm of you before they activate, and NEVER EVER let them within 30cm (45cm for all LV/AV formation) of you before they activate. A Tank Company on Sustain Fire with all guns in range is terrifying.

All told you get 1x AP1+/AT3+, 9x AP3+/AT3+, 10x AT4+, 20x AP4+, plus any upgrades. Of course that's for a standard Steel Legion Company.
Author:  Ulrik [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
If you haven't got access to the Leman Russ variants (people will convert, but you need to hook them first!), is the Minervan list still viable? One problem I'm seeing is the IG force structure - you need 3 companies for a 3k list, and I can really only see one viable option for that with the Minervans - 1 tank coy and 2 superheavy tank coys. Personally I'd ideally want to have one company of each type (tank, superheavies, arty) - is that viable in a Minervan list where the arty coy isn't the BTS?

Or say that the player prefers to stick with the Steel Legion (one of my newbs got 20 russes, 2 mech inf companies and 16 sentinels off ebay, with some other stuff - he's trolling for arty now). What advice can I give him? Is it a good idea to use the 2 tank coys together with sentinels screening them?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
A minervan list composed of two SHT companies plus multiple basic Russ platoons would probably be very effective.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
Here are a couple example 2000 pt Minervan lists from this thread viewtopic.php?f=95&t=20771

That's a low point size to play Minervans, so the challenge was to make something still playable. The first is my own version using 8 war engines (deal with that at 2000pts!), and the second is Spectrars and actually places an impressive 32 Leman Russ hulls on the table.

If there is one thing worth taking away from these two lists, its that even at low point sizes Minervan armies can be built to be viable.

Quote:
Minervan War Engine Army - 2000pts
3 Shadowsword, Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra)
3 Baneblade

SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]
WARHOUND TITAN [275]

7 activations despite containing 8 war engines at 2000pts. The salamanders aren't in there to fight; where I play in Australia there are a couple of prevalent army builds that use Teleporting - both Terminators and Necrons (yes, 2 out of 14 campaign players here are Necron). The role of the Salamaders against those armies is to screen and absorb the first hit. If 2 die and the third is to far away to fight it may survive to regroup and score later, but either way its job is just a speed bump that allows the tanks to then engage in FF or sustained fire on a formation that wants to be in base contact.

Against shooty armies like Guard, Tau, Eldar etc the Salamanders should just stay out of sight out of mind and go grab an objective late game. If the opponent has artillery, well the salamanders are dead meat but at least that reduces BMs on the vital tanks.


Quote:
Minervan Massed Russes - 2000pts
10 Exterminators, Hydra, Commissar - 550
10 Exterminators, Hydra, Commissar - 550
6 Conquerers, Commissar - 340
6 Conquerers, Commissar - 340
Salamander Platoon - 100
Salamander Platoon - 100

6 Activations. Exterminators are only slightly Inferior to Russes in firepower (45cm AP4/AT5 main gun instead of 75cm AP4/AT4) and have improved FF (3+), making the Armored Commisssar Extra Attack count.
Conquerers are the only 4+RA, 30cm (corrected from 35cm) move unit in the game. They go wherever they want, and have the guns to back themselves up, even if they have no Sponsons.
Author:  braxat2000 [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
Spectrar Ghost thanks for the awesome article you've written.
I read it twice and can't wait to build up my IGs so I can try the tactics out.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to win with 20 russes
ATTACK !!! ATTACK !!!! " Grab'm by the nose and kick'm in the @#%^* !!!!" - Gen. G. Patton ... ;D
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