WOW! I wasn't expecting all these responses, but Thank you all!

This does give me a lot to think about now when force building and buying when it comes to the Super Heavies. I wasn't aware of the neutering of the Eldar until I read these comments followed by a quick look at the Errata. Again thanks!

One quick follow up question then. I'm still a little "huh" on the Arty/Disrupt thing. So the potential for One Void Spinner to lay down some BM is 2 for sure, or whatever fits the template +1?

I'm ashamed to say that my games thus far have not involved Artillery. Just giant robots and genetically modified maniacs.

No, your math is correct. I just think that once you get to those distances, 5cm is effectively meaningless.


Play styles can make all the difference.

I like infantry-heavy forces and tend to rely on area denial against Eldar, so Falcon AT is a non-issue and I'm daring you to come within 45cm range anyway. Against my local IG player, arty and/or Valkyries are a standard. Either of those will do vastly better against Falcons than Scorpions.

In a related direction:

What are peoples experiances of Cobras? I havent got any, but they seem rather odd on paper, the TK(D3+1) is great but its 2BP means AT6+ when firing at a war engine (and short ranged), does anyone regularly use one as a war engine hunter?

The reason Void Spinners are a better choice than Scorpions, is because they synergise so well with the Eldar army as a whole. Effectively they force difficult choices on your opponent which play into your hands as an Eldar player.

Firstly they have to choose between bunching together and taking heavy casualties from the Void Spinner artillery or they spread out and take less hits but that just leaves their formations vulnerable to the eldar assault specialists.

It also forces your opponent to attack the Eldar fire base, its just not viable to leave two Void Spinners untouched to keep firing for a whole game - you will just take too many casualties and blast markers, even if in reality some armies could just ignore them, in a game its very difficult to be quite so cool. Now in most cases Eldar AA will be very heavy so you will almost certainly have to commit some sort of ground offensive to silence the Void Spinners which then opens you up to an Eldar counter attack.

These to me are why Void Spinners are the best EoV's not their raw stats but how they work in conjunction with the rest of the army.

They are an ok choice if you know you will be facing a big war engine, or kept back as a counter attacking reserve. But they are a bit hit and miss on an individual basis and if you take a formation of 2 they are a very tempting and fairly fragile target for your opponent to hit.

But what are EUK doing to make them better?

Don't tell me you're bringing back Pulse...

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ditto what yme-loc said. I usually play Ulthwe (no void spinners) and the difference between nightspinners and void spinners was night and day - that 30cm extra range and invulnerability to suppression makes all the difference.

Concur with all those talking about the rest of the army. I think it was Dave that summed up the relative strengths compared to the rest of the eldar force. Scorps will always be up against it

Cobras have a great back table defensive roll, not that good on offence. But are really good against everything bar armour actually. Marine terminators have to be the favoured prey. Against armour they have a hard time hitting, but against hard infantry, especially stuff like marines that wants to be in your face, or those WE fliers people love to land near you, they are great.

They work best as 2 singles rather than a pair. I think Neal first pointed it out and its true. You have a slightly degraded shooting but can target 2 formations, have greater flexibility, another activation and redundancy. They are best on the end of turn set up, start of turn sustain kind of scenario, so one where the enemy is coming to you.

I would rate the WE points wise as
275 Voidspinner
250 Cobra and Storm Serpent
225 Scorpion
The formations getting bigger I think do need a discount, but its not a straight -25 for two or -more for three. Clearly some WE are better teamed up - indeed the stormserpent team is an effective tactic against many armies as the break move is simply a way of getting it even closer to the target and the loss of activations doesn't matter to much as you want to concentrate the gates typically to mass the attack - and others less so. The Void spinner might get an extra BP but really is best as singles. The Cobra has no reason to be in a group of 3. The scorp actually could work well as a group in a kind of eldar hammer formation - but is 750 points for three comparable to a phantom? not at all, so they would I guess need a points drop.

+1 I think those points would more accurately reflect their abilities. I've certainly also much preferred Void Spinners and generally taken two of them and only rarely any of the others.

Some kind of points reduction for larger units could be a good idea too, though there is the problem that some are worse in large units while others are better.

Giving their weapon 3x instead of 2x... with the old Pulse rules, they were more likely to get 3 shots than any other Pulse unit; they did suffer the most from the change.

It's something I'm thinking about testing with the Eldar as a *sigh* last minute change.

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Sweet, that's a simple solve I think.

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that would make them considerably more attractive, more so than even a 25pts drop..

I'd prefer to have all the EoVs at the same point value.

Due to its "awesomeness!", would reducing the Voidspinner's attack to 2BP bring it in line with the other EoVs? Pairs would still generate two barrage templates, but not the extra BM for 6BP.

DISCUSS!

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

2BP instead fo 3 is a big drop.

Assuming 4 targets under template that is 8/3AP hits reduced to 6/3Ap and 6/3AT reduced to 4/3. A 33% drop in firepower I beleive.

Granted the pair becomes more attractive and 500 points for a 2 template 3+AP/4+AT on sustain from 2 warengines is pretty good. However the consequences for list structure are pretty radical (niether good nor bad, just a point).

An alternative nerf is to decrease the range to 45cm. This looks at the balance vis a vie Nightspinners who are a good arty unit but just so much in the shade compared to a void spinner!