Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=17604		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
2 Drop Zones

Is there any reason why Spaceship cannot have 2 drop points?

It appears reasonable that the effect of the drop is to be contained, yet were there any discussions in regards to two drops being plotted and allowed within the purview of the tournament scenario?

What was the effect on points etc in line with keeping slow and steady rule active?
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
As far as I know, there is no restriction on the number of different drop zones - you can have a separate DZ for each formation. The only restriction is that all the units of a formation have to drop within 15 cm of the initial marker and within 5cm of each other (including scouts).

However, if you are suggesting that a player could set up several drop points and then choose which to use, IMHO that would be too powerfull. The point is that the planetfall mechanics mean that the bulk of a formation can be placed at least 18cm from the initial drop point and potentially up to 42cm away. Given several formations are involved, this means that the planetfalling formations can actually cover most of the battlefield. I have found with a little practice that objective placement can be used to predict the location and thrust of enemy forces, and set up DZs accordingly.

Regarding "Slow and Steady", I think most would agree with the implied suggestion that it does not really work within the tournament setting. However, "S&S" will be more appropriate in the context of other scenarios, for instance the "Bridge too far" re-creation of the WWI Market Garden operation which relied on waves of airborne troops being dropped behind enemy lines to seize and hold vital objectives until relieved by an armoured column. As such the costings may still be valid.

In other words, the unit costings and stats may not be inappropriate just because they do not work well in one strategic or tactical context.
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Quote: (Ginger @ Jan. 06 2010, 11:00 )

As far as I know, there is no restriction on the number of different drop zones

Thanks for thsat Ginger

I was more refferring to this (my fault for not being clear)

Quote: 

The only restriction is that all the units of a formation have to drop within 15 cm of the initial marker and within 5cm of each other (including scouts).


Was there any design reasonings why 2 initial markers would not work within the tournament rules or is it too far imbalanced?

If so, could someone provide a 'broken' example?
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Are you talking about large formations that may not want to be restricted to a 15cm radius? Smaller formations will either:

1) Have two markers close enough to maintain coherency, in which case they don't need two markers.

2) Have to move into coherency as a first action or have half destroyed.

So I'm not sure what positive outcome outside what already takes place you would hope to see.

SG
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
No the idea is, instead of designating 1 point of a drop, you designate two points and nominate the units that will drop at point A and those that will be at point B.

When the Spacecraft activates, the drop pods/dreadclaws/spore transports deply to their respective markers (with 15cm radius) and then they all land.

So rather than have 1 point of a drop, you would effectively have two sites of a drop (let's say on the wings of the opponents guessed defenses).

The whole idea behind all of this is that if you want to drop a whole force, they are not all deploying within one area, but more tactically in multiple (2) locations. Trying a dynamic drop force without teleport at the moment will mean you whole force is relegated to one area. What I am looking for is an idea on whether this would be balanced or whether there would be concerns.

Such a rule design would have implications for all drop forces (Tyranids, World Eaters, and other blitzkrieg forces) and would bring a dynamic element to the game for the defence against such attacks.

Like stated, I am wondering whether a balanced approach for such a design can be balanced for the tournament scenario rather than making one up just for such an attack and defense game.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Quote: 

Quote:

The only restriction is that all the units of a formation have to drop within 15 cm of the initial marker and within 5cm of each other (including scouts). /quote


Was there any design reasonings why 2 initial markers would not work within the tournament rules or is it too far imbalanced?

If so, could someone provide a 'broken' example?


FB are you asking if one formation could deploy over two drop points? Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Otherwise, I guess Ginger has it right that you can make as many drop points as you have formations so you can still spread the whole army over the table.
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
:grin:

I will try.

I have 8 formations that I wish to drop. Rather than the existing rules where I state the insertion point being here (let's say 15cm west and 15cm North) and dropping all 8 units, I am looking at the following proposal:

Before the game, I chose 2 insertion points:

Point 1.  15cm west and 15cm North
and
Point 2. 110 west and 35cm North

Now I designate that in the drop, units 1-4 will drop at Point 1 and 5-8 will drop at Point 2. Notice that they are on opposite sides of the table.

Now after the spaceship activates, it releases it's load of dreadclaws. Point A deviations are worked out and Dreadclaw markers placed. Then the same is done with Point B. Forces are placed on their landings and the game continues.

I guess it is best to think of it as teleports yet using the Dreadclaw rules (designate the point(s) at the start of the game and then place within 15cm of the mark).

At present you can only chose 1 point for a drop for all the units to arrive. The proposal and what is being asked is why not 2 points for drops when using a larger anmount of drop activations.

Somehow I cannot imagine a 3000 point drop force all landing within a 15cm area and what the tactical advantage that would provide when attempting to achieve 2+ points while preventing your enemy doing the same. IMO there should be a more dynamic and free element to the system to allow 2 drops. What I do not know however is through the development of EpicA, wether this was found to be unbalanced, or whether it was just never thought of...

:grin:
Author:  Chroma [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Quote: (frogbear @ Jan. 06 2010, 05:53 )

:grin:

I will try.

I have 8 formations that I wish to drop.

Each formation gets its own drop zone... so, you've got *eight* potential drop zones in your example.

Technically, say for Drop Pods, only the Drop Pod "unit" has planetfall and the Marine formation is being transported by it and must disembark within 15cm of the Drop Pod marker after Deathwind attacks.

If you had three formations coming down in Drop Pods, you'd record a Drop Zone for each Pod, anywhere you'd like, and the appropriate formation would be deployed from the appropriate Pod.

From the FAQ:

Q: Let’s say I have Battle Kroozer. I
also happen to have four Ork Landas.
Do all have to land within 15cm of
same drop zone marker or is it
possible to set up multiple drop
zones? Or is only way to have multiple
drop zone markers to get multiple
spacecraft?

A: Each transport formation may have its
own drop zone. In this example there could
be up to four drop zones, one for each
Landa. If you use multiple drop zones, you
will need to record clearly which Landa is
allocated to each drop zone.
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Ok

So maybe I have been playing this incorrectly.

The rule is:

Quote: 

In addition to saying when the spacecraft will arrive, you
must secretly record the drop zone for units entering
play using the planetfall ability, (see 4.4) and also where
any orbital bombardments will fall.


I took this as a single drop zone. I guess from what people are saying, you can record a different drop zone 2 different Drop Pods?


Quote: 

Each player needs to do this in turn while the other player is not looking.
Simply write down on a piece of paper the coordinates of the drop zone...


Once again, the singular use of the word is confusing if it is more than one drop zone....

Quote: 

...and/or bombardment in relation to the
position of the space craft model. The coordinates you
plot will determine the centre point of the drop zone and
any orbital bombardment your spacecraft fires. For
example you might write “my drop zone will be 60cm up,
30cm right, and my orbital bombardment will come down
45cm up and 30cm leftâ€Â
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Quote: (Chroma @ Jan. 06 2010, 15:08 )

Each formation gets its own drop zone... so, you've got *eight* potential drop zones in your example.

Technically, say for Drop Pods, only the Drop Pod "unit" has planetfall and the Marine formation is being transported by it and must disembark within 15cm of the Drop Pod marker after Deathwind attacks.

If you had three formations coming down in Drop Pods, you'd record a Drop Zone for each Pod, anywhere you'd like, and the appropriate formation would be deployed from the appropriate Pod.

From the FAQ:

Q: Let’s say I have Battle Kroozer. I
also happen to have four Ork Landas.
Do all have to land within 15cm of
same drop zone marker or is it
possible to set up multiple drop
zones? Or is only way to have multiple
drop zone markers to get multiple
spacecraft?

A: Each transport formation may have its
own drop zone. In this example there could
be up to four drop zones, one for each
Landa. If you use multiple drop zones, you
will need to record clearly which Landa is
allocated to each drop zone.

This does seem to answer my question.

I just want to make sure that I play it correctly, that's all   :grin:  :agree:
Author:  Mephiston [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
I've always read it and played it that each formation that is arriving via planetfall can plot its own DZ. Far to restrictive otherwise.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
I think the confusion, for our group at least, is the following.

Quote: 

In addition to saying when the spacecraft will arrive, you must secretly record the drop zone for units entering play using the planetfall ability, (see 4.4) and also where any orbital bombardments will fall.


The use of the singular made it a little confusing. And the few examples I have seen has always had the Drop Pods within a single drop zone.

Morgan Vening
Author:  GR00V3R [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
I never noticed the singular "drop zone" before. I always read it as "drop zones" because that seemed to be the intent.

Does anyone know The One True Answer here? Is the intention that you can determine multiple drop zones (which is awesome), or just one that all formations must use (which is lame)?

My bias may be showing...  ;)

EDIT: Scratch that...I just read the earlier post with the FAQ quote. Answers the question definitively. (A gives the answer I was looking for--YAY!)  :sign1:
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Rule Design Query - Drop Zones
Quote: 

gives the answer I was looking for--YAY


My feeling exactly

This thread has served it's purpose so I am closing it now.

Thank you everyone (especially Chroma) for your input to help me find the solution

Regards...   :yay:
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/