Tactical Command
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Rule Query - Countercharge
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=17582		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Hi Everyone.

Here is the situation:

Unit is supporting a combat. The combat is a draw. The enemy uses the countercharge to engage the supporting unit thereby including them as part of the combat. Does the unit that has now become the unwilling participant also get a countercharge move into the enemy as they are now part of the combat?

Thank you in advance.
Author:  Man of kent [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
The rule book only mentions that the defending formation (the one who had an engagement action taken against them) gets to counter charge so I'd say no.
R>
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Is the supporting formation the attackers or defenders?

If attackers no, as the attacker counter charges first, yes if defenders.
Author:  frogbear [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Quote: (Man of kent @ Jan. 04 2010, 20:51 )

The rule book only mentions that the defending formation (the one who had an engagement action taken against them) gets to counter charge so I'd say no.
R>

But do they not themselves then become the defenders?

A rose by any other name.....

Just throwing it out there     :grin:
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Sorry edited my response so frogbears response looks odd!
Author:  zombocom [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
I don't believe it's covered in the rules, but it's certainly fair and reasonable to allow them a counter-charge.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Can you countercharge a countercharge?
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
It's an anomaly of combats that go 2 round of more. The attacker side gets to "countercharge" before the defender does.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Meph's got it right, imho.

In the second round, the Engaging formation countercharges first.  If the Engaging formation "draws in" a second target formation with its move, then the second target formation would be considered part of the target formation when it countercharges.

OTOH, if the target formation countercharges and draws in a new formation, it would not get to counter charge.  The engaging side already countercharged.  Even though it's now considered part of the engaging formation, no move would be taken.

===

By the way, this causes all manner of weirdness based on formation coherency rules.  Even though the original and drawn in formations are now considered a single target and are technically supposed to maintain coherency, that's clearly going to be impossible in many cases.  Wiping out a support formation simply because they were drawn in but cannot reach coherency in a single countercharge move is clearly against the spirit of the rules.  IMHO, they should try to maintain or reduce the distance ("linking up" with the other formation) but as long as they don't directly increase the distance I don't think it's fair to impose a penalty.
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
I think a note that unit coherency should be suspended during the assault but must be met after all withdrawal and consolidation moves.

May lead to even more gamey situations though.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Quote: (Mephiston @ Jan. 04 2010, 16:13 )

I think a note that unit coherency should be suspended during the assault but must be met after all withdrawal and consolidation moves.

The thing is the assault rules, including the intermingling and Commander rules, specifically state that coherency applies.  Intermingling and Commander both go further and state that the multi-formation groups have to maintain coherency with each other.
Author:  yme-loc [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
You dont have to counter charge.
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule Query - Countercharge
Quote: (nealhunt @ Jan. 04 2010, 19:40 )

Quote: (Mephiston @ Jan. 04 2010, 16:13 )

I think a note that unit coherency should be suspended during the assault but must be met after all withdrawal and consolidation moves.

The thing is the assault rules, including the intermingling and Commander rules, specifically state that coherency applies.  Intermingling and Commander both go further and state that the multi-formation groups have to maintain coherency with each other.

Right, move along then, nothing to see here  :whistle:
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