Tactical Command
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Epic UK List Update
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=32950
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Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Epic UK List Update

List updates for the 2018 tournament calendar are now up on the Epic UK site epic-uk.co.uk/wp/army-lists/

These will be legal from (and including) Full Scale Assault in February.

Krieg
When a Commissar is added to a formation it must be placed in a core unit not an upgrade.

World Eaters
' with transport' added to the WE retinue. Removes dreadclaw/rhino upgrades

Iron Warriors
Chaos Hunter added to Armoured Co, Vindicator Co. 1 for 50 pts, 2 for 75
Basilisk formation changed to 275pts

All Space Marine lists
Thunderhawks moved to air/titan 1/3

A further update will be made later in the year after testing.

Author:  Monkeyboy [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Good amendments.

Please don't forget to test Battlewagons at 25 points.

Ta

Author:  mordoten [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

+1 to everything Monkeyboy said!

Author:  lord-bruno [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Quote:
Basilisk formation changed to 275pts


Four units?? wow ::)

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

As an actual real life Ork, I'd like to request -25pts for a big warband and -50pts for a Uge warband.

Also I would like a helicopter, and a plane ticket to the Bahamas.

Author:  Monkeyboy [ Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Evil and Chaos wrote:
As an actual real life Ork, I'd like to request -25pts for a big warband and -50pts for a Uge warband.

Also I would like a helicopter, and a plane ticket to the Bahamas.

Danger is that they will become the dullest, most defensive, un-orky BTS and blitz defence.

Better to enable them to be Orky and assault

Author:  Ginger [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Really disappointed about this approach to the Marines.
It strikes at the whole idea of strategic and tactical ‘flexibility’ that was built into the list as the hallmark of the Marines. And it is a major change to the core list.

This approach invalidates a good number of past lists that were apparently balanced and fair, while also removing the possibility of letting people try some apparently less competitive things, which is what Dan did (and hats off to him).

All that was needed was to curb the number of aircraft / THawks available to the player without changing anything else. This approach impacts the other ‘crutches’ as Kyuss rightly describes them of spacecraft, titans and a/c, and nerfs the list totally unnecessarily.

Why didn’t the E-UK committee just add the simple constraint of
Quote:
1 Aircraft per 500 points? (Landing Craft, THawk, TBolt or Marauder)


:nooo
:{[]

Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Spot on Ginger

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

My 3x Landing Craft list got banned. :(

Author:  kyussinchains [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Evil and Chaos wrote:
My 3x Landing Craft list got banned. :(


No it didn't

ONLY thunderhawks are added to the 1/3 air allowance, you can still take 5 thunderhawks and 5 landing craft if you want

Author:  kyussinchains [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

FWIW this is still the best option and retains much more flexibility than a max 6 aircraft at 3k, the only popular build it inpacts is the 2x warhound, 2x thunderhawk and tbolts one

(Marines should rarely have titans anyway)

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

kyussinchains wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
My 3x Landing Craft list got banned. :(


No it didn't

ONLY thunderhawks are added to the 1/3 air allowance, you can still take 5 thunderhawks and 5 landing craft if you want

Oh pimpin! :spin

Gonna buy me a FSA ticket. Totally not bringing Marines.

Author:  kyussinchains [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Ginger wrote:
Really disappointed about this approach to the Marines.
It strikes at the whole idea of strategic and tactical ‘flexibility’ that was built into the list as the hallmark of the Marines. And it is a major change to the core list.

This approach invalidates a good number of past lists that were apparently balanced and fair, while also removing the possibility of letting people try some apparently less competitive things, which is what Dan did (and hats off to him).

All that was needed was to curb the number of aircraft / THawks available to the player without changing anything else. This approach impacts the other ‘crutches’ as Kyuss rightly describes them of spacecraft, titans and a/c, and nerfs the list totally unnecessarily.

Why didn’t the E-UK committee just add the simple constraint of
Quote:
1 Aircraft per 500 points? (Landing Craft, THawk, TBolt or Marauder)


:nooo
:{[]


Dan's thunderhawk list won the euros and the GT, while far from unbeatable, it is basically zero fun to face, and some players basically have zero chance against it, it is about as far from a 'less competetive' list as it is possible to get...

Author:  Ginger [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

kyussinchains wrote:
FWIW this is still the best option and retains much more flexibility than a max 6 aircraft at 3k, the only popular build it inpacts is the 2x warhound, 2x thunderhawk and tbolts one

(Marines should rarely have titans anyway)
On the contrary, placing the constraint changed absolutely nothing in the list except restricting the number of a/c available - which was clearly explained at length. The constraint would have retained exactly the same list flexibility as before.

This new approach of placing THawks in the space 1/3 also hampers lists with spaceships as well, so pretty much removes the notion of being able to build a list that can deploy in a different manner depending on the opossition being faced, while forcing people who want to try these strategies to use the less cost effective Landing Craft - if they have them, while virtually removing any idea of trying to find a competitive Reaver / Warlord build with some form of air assault capability.

It also tends to force a far greater reliance on a ‘fixed’ build created with a single strategy in mind, the antithesis of the Marine theme.

As for “marines should rarely have titans” - why???
If this is what people actually feel, why didn’t this option get nerfed or removed altogether??
As you said yourself, they form one of the ‘crutches’ the marine builds seem to need.

So I repeat, why nerf all the Marine lists in this way?
The 1 a/c per 500 points constraint is much simpler, and retains the balance of The Core list , no?

Author:  kyussinchains [ Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK List Update

Marine spacecraft are not part of the air third either... Never have been

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