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Accessible Epic to boost community and event attendance

 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Aye Wheaton's Law should be in force

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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:13 pm 
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I'd probably go as far as suggesting ideally avoiding certain races entirely when playing with new players on top of that - playing stuff like Necrons and Krieg can can traumatic enough for established players let alone encountering them in your second or third game ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Couldn't agree more. Demo games especially I tend to bring fluffy versions of either steel legion or squats as they have minimal special rules and lots of thematic units you wouldn't use in a competitive environment.

Tangentially, I'd like to test tactical cos with a 3+ff.

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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:31 pm 
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It's a slippery slope that, if you think of the three core marine troops, you have Tacticals, Devastators, and Assault Marines. their assault profiles hang off the tacticals, and the other two get a +1/-1 to their respective specialisations. So do you give devs for instance the same FF as tacticals? or are they going up to a 2+? and do assaults stay at 5+ on that basis?

Plus, there's the thorny issue of Chaos. Do basic chaos marines get this boost as well? and cults too perhaps? Arguably the same issue with space marines applies (but worse) with Iron Warriors for instance, given they don't have ATSKNF and don't get all the tasty daemons, their retinues are crap. But can you give it to one and not the other given they're basically the same?

Points reduction would probably make more sense, but then you even have to be careful with this given the balance between tacticals and devs, not to mention the extra 'free' rhino they're getting.


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:02 pm 
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I think GW should have made Tacs FF 3+, and devs FF 4+. Tacs should be the FF masters - the special ops guys that kick the most ass out of a drop pod with bolters blazing, flamers. melta etc. That way each has a specialism, The devs do the longer ranged shooting.

Anyway, I noticed people (e.g. club members) who don't play epic (but may have in the past) saying they won't because it isn't supported anymore (but they definitley get into it if it's rereleased) , they often regretting that GW abandoned it because it was great (or their best game even). Also the conviction of only using GW models and that they cost a lot and hard / impossible to obtain.

personally I find the fact epic it isn't supported by GW its most appealing feature. It means free, stable, well tested lists. I can't stand the new shiny approach of 40k but people lap it up. Also the constantly changing editions that fix half the bugs and introduce an even greater number.


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Thing is though, Dev's don't bring the long range firepower. They get twice the amount of crap ranged shooting as a tactical stand, although given unit sizes in reality that's actually 8 shots compared to 6.


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:31 pm 
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yeah inf shooting always is quite poor. give him a heavy bolter and or a price reduction perhaps


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:45 pm 
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and make tacts even more worthless? That's crazy talk.
Just drop them 25 points and call it good (perhaps a discounted access to the first LR upgrade as well)

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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:50 pm 
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What have any of these posts got to do with meet ups?


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Imho devs and assault should stay 4+ but get EA on their respective specialism. I’m also the argument that Tacs should be better in FF.


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:52 am 
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That the specialisms ought to be CC, FF and shooting is completely logical, but alas completely not going to happen :) I do think tacs, land raiders and whirlwinds could be made more appealing though, and it wouldn't do any harm to the core list.

As a general comment I think this topic is actually something it is quite important for the community to consider in its current state. There are a lot more folks than just on this forum, and most of them are not coming to a club for that first game. From what I can see many of them DO start with whatever comes out of the loft, and actually that is the appeal. Epic is a 'dead' game, its marginal cost of starting to play (instead of all the other things one can be playing) needs to be pretty much zero. We ought not to bemoan their short sightedness in not wanting to shell out for non GW proxies, or search for hard to find models. You can't have a game with someone on Facebook and introduce them gently via your subpar army; if we are to direct them to community lists then those lists should be representative of what people have and match their expectations of force composition. Even just playing at home with a mate, if your mate pulls his plastic eldar out of the loft and you pull out your legion of tactical marines in rhinos and land raiders, I think we know what is going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:09 am 
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Well said

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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:54 am 
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Kyrt wrote:
You can't have a game with someone on Facebook and introduce them gently via your subpar army; if we are to direct them to community lists then those lists should be representative of what people have and match their expectations of force composition. Even just playing at home with a mate, if your mate pulls his plastic eldar out of the loft and you pull out your legion of tactical marines in rhinos and land raiders, I think we know what is going to happen.


I don't understand this bit


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:03 am 
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One thing that would probably make sense is if there's concern about certain issues on lists to bring this up in the relevant army thread rather this area!

Talking of lists in general though, one question would be whether in the hypothetical case of someone digging some bits out of his loft and playing against a friend doing similar in their garage or somesuch, would they even be using any of these lists, or would they just be using what's in the back of the book?

There's certainly no guarantee that they're finding either Tac-comms or the Net-Armageddon site afterall...


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 Post subject: Re: Accessible Epic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:56 pm 
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RichardL wrote:
One thing that would probably make sense is if there's concern about certain issues on lists to bring this up in the relevant army thread rather this area!

Talking of lists in general though, one question would be whether in the hypothetical case of someone digging some bits out of his loft and playing against a friend doing similar in their garage or somesuch, would they even be using any of these lists, or would they just be using what's in the back of the book?

There's certainly no guarantee that they're finding either Tac-comms or the Net-Armageddon site afterall...

That's the next step in terms of promoting Epic. For starters we need to tag onto some 40k tournaments and gaming centres. I will post pictures of the Titan v Goliath big game, for example, widely.

Imagine if all you had to do was convert a couple of Whirlwinds into Hunters for a viable plastic marine list - amazing.

I've just spent a while working out Space Wolves lists. Tac marines (well, Hunters) are taken as they are compulsory. Other plastics such as Land Raiders and Whirlwinds did not make it into the list. Surely Land Raiders being a bit better would be good for the game as a whole?

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