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Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=26115		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  Steve54 [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
Available today are the latest Epic UK lists for use in our tournaments, these will be legal from, and including, the Epic UK GT.

First up is a new race to EUK - the Adeptus Mechanicus Titan Legions

Secondly the Biel Tan, Ulthwe, Saim Hann and Iyanden lists have been updated on feedback gathered over their use over the last 18 months.

http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/army-lists/
Author:  Kyrt [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
Phoenix bombers ahoy :)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
Gonna have to finish painting my Eldar.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
Now it's been clarified in the list, I assume an autarch always comes with a specific weapon loadout (so FD autarch doesnt get the MW shooting/FF attack for example)?
Author:  Man of kent [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
Aw...no Emperor class titans :-( ! Nevertheless, I look forwards to giving the AMTL a spin somewhen next year :-)
Author:  mordoten [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
Yes, i will try the ATML list to i think!

Just one question though. The Vampire Hunter in the Sam-Hainn list, it has no transport capacity or is it a typo?
Author:  kyussinchains [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
No it has no transport capacity, never has done, the vampire raider is the transport, the hunter is the gunship
Author:  mordoten [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
Aha, missed that it was another craft! :{[]
Author:  Kyrt [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldat
kyussinchains wrote:
No it has no transport capacity, never has done, the vampire raider is the transport, the hunter is the gunship

It now has a FF value though :)
Author:  Ginger [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
Hmm, interesting changes to the Eldar, though I would be interested in the thought processes:-
  • Banshees will always underperform until they are give "infantry sniper" or something similar.
  • Phoenix bombers needed a price drop, though 325 might be better IMO.
  • Cobra needed a boost, though this seems excessive. Adding MW3 to the D-cannon is meaningless, the weapon is already a titan killer so MW is already included. Also I do not like changing to TK D(6)! Why was this changed from TK (D3+1) which gave a weaker but more predictable impact. If you wished to increase the power, why not make it TK (D3+2), or better still increase the range to 45cm? This change means that achieving hits can be completely undermined by the TK result which seems wrong.
  • Improving the Phantom pulsar slightly may be OK, but probably not necessary - the Power fist is the much better option.
  • Tightening up the Autarch and Exarch definitions is good.
  • The cheaper Falcons transport change is wrong (See comments below)
    interesting and may well result in some being taken especially for the smaller Aspect formations in some lists. Why not a straight 50 points each?
  • Void Spinner increase is not warranted

Edit :-The more I look at these, the less appropriate they seem. The Eldar Biel Tan list is arguably one of the most balanced out there. If there are concerns about the other lists, then these should be addressed in those lists rather than 'nerfing' the entire Eldar codex.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
Ginger, the cobra no longer uses a template in MW mode, it's a single shot weapon when fired as a titan killer, it now is probably more effective on average against most large war engines, but has less chance to blow them up in a single shot.... it's also now less effective against tough infantry

But then it was rarely taken prior to the review and if I'm honest, it will probably remain that way as the eldar are hardly short of potent shooting options!
Author:  kyussinchains [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
Yes but has a specific weapon profile..... does this mean then that a FD autarch would have one extra ff attack *and* one MW ff attack?
Author:  yme-loc [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
The Autarch is a character that adds the weapons and abilities listed on its datafax to any unit it is added to.

Exarch special weapons and rules are on the seperate Exarch characters.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic UK Update - AMTL and Eldar
kyussinchains wrote:
Ginger, the cobra no longer uses a template in MW mode, it's a single shot weapon when fired as a titan killer, it now is probably more effective on average against most large war engines, but has less chance to blow them up in a single shot.... it's also now less effective against tough infantry

But then it was rarely taken prior to the review and if I'm honest, it will probably remain that way as the eldar are hardly short of potent shooting options!

Well, if this is the case, then this change is completely *wrong* and the original stats should be reinstated!

The D-Cannon is a weapon that creates a localised warp hole - it is *supposed* to be good against all targets, providing it manages to survive long enough to engage them! However, its short range means that it nearly always has to double to shoot, making it much harder to hit *any* target whilst also placing the Cobra in a position to be counter-attacked.

The whole point of using the template weapon as TK was that it increased in power with the size of the titan, but a single could not destroy a titan outright! Changing this to a MW3 TK D(6) weapon significantly reduces its effectiveness against the larger titans, while making it better against smaller ones - a complete reversal of its role and *fluff*. If you are interested I can regurgitate the maths.

Now it will *never* be taken because the Scorpion has better range as MW weapon, while the Night Spinner and Void Spinner are better artillery.

The main concern about the Cobra was always that it was considered too good against other targets, specifically infantry. (IMO given the restricted range, even this concern is not totally valid).

There were extensive debates about this in the old SG forums and more recently on these boards, and at no time was this proposal mentioned. If we have to revise the stats, there are other, much better ways of doing this.
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