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UK EPIC "Championship"
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:34 am 
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The figures posted by dptdexys are

Total Score, Name, Game1,  Game2, Game3, Painting.


Aye, I realised that once Ginger pointed out I had something wrong.

As to draws, the definition of draw that I used was if the player scored 16-18pts in a game (That's the definition from the FSA rules pack IIRC).

I may have had my maths wrong, of course. :D

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alansa
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:08 am 
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As I say, in Open War it's 13-12 so you have to be careful

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Ginger
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:22 am 
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E&C, Try these figures (WD / LD winning Draw, Losing Draw); based upon Alansa's explanation

Race ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? W ? WD ? LD ? ?L
Lost & Damned ? ? ? 6 ? ??0 ? ? ?0 ? ? ?0
Eldar ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 ? ? 1 ? ? ?0 ? ?? 5
Black Legion ? ? ? ? ? 9 ? ??2 ? ? ?0 ?? ? 4
Space marines ? ? ?10 ? ? 0 ? ? ?2 ? ? 12
Imperial Guard ? ? ? ?7 ? ? 3 ?? ??4 ?? ?13
Orks ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 ? ? ?2 ? ? ?2 ?? ? 6

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alansa
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:34 am 
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BtW Ginger how do you define race?

Ok Siegmasters and Steel Legion are human.

So are Lost & Damned (largely) and arguably Space Marines and Chaos Marines!

Then again you can say Steel Legion and Siegies are Imperial - but then so are Space Marines (though even that is a bit vague) but L&D are sepratists.

Aside from all that vagury I do think E&C is right and you need to do it by list. It would be more... revealing?

I know some lists are, in principle, variants of a main list:

Steel Legion <- Siege Masters
Orks <- Speed Freaks, Ferals

(Even L&D could be possibly be considered a variant SL list.)

etc etc

But overall I don't think it matters. We want to see which lists are popular and which ones do well - and all are valid and open for people to use.

If you wanted something less analytical and more fun - something to do with an imagined war perhaps then, additionally, I'd divide things up politically:

Imperial, Chaos, Eldar, Orks

waaaddaya saaayyy?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:59 am 
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Okay, I'll have another badger at the figures tomorrow, unless someone else wants to step in and do it first.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:02 pm 
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(alansa @ Apr. 08 2008,11:34)
QUOTE
Aside from all that vagury I do think E&C is right and you need to do it by list. It would be more... revealing?

Although more 'fluffy' to list the results by race, I think it's more useful to see the results by list (For example, if Siegemasters are overpowered and Steel Legion underpowered, end of season results would make the 'Imperial Guard' faction look balanced, all else being equal).

Hypothetically speaking. :)

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dptdexys
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:39 pm 
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I think any tie breaker should count as a draw.
I know one of the Marine v. Marine games finished 1-0 (technically a tie breaker situaution) but was counted as a win by one goal difference.
I agree we should probably go by army list not race too.It may meen having 4 or 5 extra armies in the races section but it would be good for comparing pre and post revision change results.
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Ginger
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:43 pm 
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The theory behind "race" was to encourage people to field more than one kind of army over the tournaments  by awarding a small bonus. Like I said at the start, this is really only intended as a "fun" way of tracking the season, though you could obviously draw a number of inferences here. To that end, I was lumping Ferals and Speed Freaks in with Orks as a single "Race"; equally Siegies with IG, White scars with SMs etc.

I drew the line at including Chaos in with their normal counterparts because of the significant differences in the units available to the army lists. Does that make sense?

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alansa
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:03 pm 
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(dptdexys @ Apr. 08 2008,12:39)
QUOTE
I think any tie breaker should count as a draw.
I know one of the Marine v. Marine games finished 1-0 (technically a tie breaker situaution) but was counted as a win by one goal difference.
I agree we should probably go by army list not race too.It may meen having 4 or 5 extra armies in the races section but it would be good for comparing pre and post revision change results.

Yeah that's right. Anytime you're down to VPs it's a draw.

1-0 goals should always be counted as a draw not a win. The rulespacks usually explictely states this

The nearest thing to a draw that isn't is therefore 2-1 goals.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:03 pm 
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It makes perfect sense but you know what us epicaholics are like :p

I hope that the WPS CC isn't now double points :glare:

How long do we reckon it will be before the 40k and WFB players want something like this .
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alansa
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:08 pm 
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(Ginger @ Apr. 08 2008,12:43)
QUOTE
The theory behind "race" was to encourage people to field more than one kind of army over the tournaments ?by awarding a small bonus. Like I said at the start, this is really only intended as a "fun" way of tracking the season, though you could obviously draw a number of inferences here. To that end, I was lumping Ferals and Speed Freaks in with Orks as a single "Race"; equally Siegies with IG, White scars with SMs etc.

I drew the line at including Chaos in with their normal counterparts because of the significant differences in the units available to the army lists. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does make sense. But then you could classify things lots of ways and they would make sense too!

Yours is the same as my suggestion. i.e the division is down political lines (which closely but not exactly correspond to genetic lines, as these things often do) with the exception that you've separated Loyalist Space Marines from the Imperial political faction.

This is doable I guess since Space Marines membership of the Imperium is errm... fuzzy  :p

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alansa
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Oh yeah, at OW as well as the 'Draw' Result  for 150-449 vp difference giving 13/12 torny points there's also
the 449+ vp difference giving a 'Marginal Victory' and 16/9 points

Though called a Marginal Victory by OW it's still a draw in epic terms (though a considerably winning draw)

I think there where one or two games that gave this result - Possibly with one person getting only one goal or there was a goal draw.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:35 pm 
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(Ginger @ Apr. 08 2008,11:22)
QUOTE
E&C, Try these figures (WD / LD winning Draw, Losing Draw); based upon Alansa's explanation

Race                     W   WD   LD    L
Lost & Damned       6     0      0      0
Eldar                     6     1      0      5
Black Legion           9     2      0      4
Space marines      10     0      2     12
Imperial Guard        7     3      4     13
Orks                     2      2      2      6

I'd rather have the results broken down by list race than race, because I'm anally retentive. :)

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Ginger
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:21 pm 
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As far as I am aware, Bill's Siege Masters is the only variant list used - but I was not at OW9, so cannot say for certain. So the revised list looks like this:

Race ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? W ? WD ? LD ? ?L
Lost & Damned ? ? ? 6 ? ? 0 ? ? ?0 ? ? ?0
Eldar ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 ? ? 1 ? ? ?0 ? ? ?5
Black Legion ? ? ? ? ? 9 ? ? 2 ? ? ?0 ? ? ?4
Space marines ? ? ?10 ? ? 0 ? ? ?2 ? ? 12
Imperial Guard ? ? ? ?6 ? ? 3 ? ? ?3 ? ? 12
Siege Masters ? ? ? ? 1 ? ? 0 ? ? ?1 ? ? ? 1
Orks ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? 2 ? ? ?2 ? ? ?2 ? ? ?6

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alansa
 Post subject: UK EPIC "Championship"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Yeah no Freaks or White Scars (or Ferals - hehe) so far this year. So Just Bill's Siegies at OW9

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