Perhaps the EEC tournaments could allow players to freely choose their army from Epic-UK lists or the Tournament Pack? It would stop people having to run their army using lists they are not familiar with and a similar set-up worked well for the Winter Warmer tournaments.

IF somebody said that, 6 years ago I might add, then it was a joke or misunderstanding

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Its been agreed the hosts choose the lists.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

This tapatalk phone app is useless without a this thread is useless without pics smily!
Edit: found pic thread... Well done gentlemen!

_________________
Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

I understand you concerns and I understand that you prefer your UK lists that you are used to and I understand that somebody may prefer the most "recent lists".

But I resent the term homebrew and joke and the implication.

NetEA is a chaos list wise. There are two attempts to reduce this for tournaments, by freezing lists. One is the army compendium and one is the tournament pack. Epic UK prevents that Chaos - by only putting the approved lists on the website. Same principle.

I choose the tournament pack, because we play a tournament and the tournament pack is meant for that.
I asked the army lists champions what lists they will forward for this years tournament pack to be up to date and the lists included is what I've got. I didn't brew anything up, I didn't influence the list, I used what I've got from the army champions via Dave. Rug is an armylist champion and he posted in the Imperial Army thread when I called for lists and Cybershadow replied, so he did know about this. I can only assume whether Dave contacted him separately about the list for the tournament pack or used something he already had.

I'm not able to decide whether the lists contain design changes or typos. And it doesn’t matter. I will not argue whether the increased points cost of Tactical Marines in the UK list is a typo or a design change and I do not insist on using the points value from 5 years ago, because I didn’t bother to look at the current lists.
The Gorgon had a 6+ save already in last years tournament pack. Download it from http://www.net-armageddon.org/sites/def ... -08-07.pdf. I assume the army champion had it reasons to use 6+.
The Tyranids weren't in last years pack.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted about not being able to find out about the army lists.
There is a whole paragraph devoted to FAQ, rules and army lists. And when you extract the zip you will see a folder named armylists. The only explanation I have, is that you didn't care to open the zip and read the army pack but relied on word of mouth.

I'm not sure where the 6+ came from - it's always been 4+. I just downloaded another copy of the Tournament Pack from your link and it lists Gorgons as 4+.

Guys

From recent posts, it sounds as though an excellent event may be soured by thoughtless comments.

If you play football (or any other game) you agree to abide by the generally understood rules of the game, and more importantly you agree to respect the referee's judgement. We need to adopt the same principles here! (Indeed, we agreed at the beginning of this venture that the 'host' would choose lists etc)

Brumbear put a lot of effort and time into running the event and deserves our thanks - even from those (like me) who did not attend.

All events have aspects that could be improved upon (EUK events included !!), but please lets try to do so in a constructive manner.

I think it may be because while the rulebook lists stats as CC/FF/Armour, the Tournament Pack for some reason lists it as Armour/CC/FF. If you don't check the headers it's easy to read 4+/6+/6+ as CC4+, save 6+. (Not that CC4+ shouldn't be a hint.)

I just want to say that you weren't boorish at all, rather I think you came off as possibly one of the nicest guys attending.

Let's face it, the issue with lists is not brumbaer's fault, it is NetEA's fault (meaning no single person's). Where versioning of lists is concerned, confusion reigns. This is actively being worked on: the tournament pack is going through a transition by adopting a single digital repository for stats and making the production of list documents automatic. This will make new packs easier to produce, and 100% deterministic, eliminating transcription errors creeping in through the editing process. It's just unfortunate, and inevitable, that whilst this process occurs there are going to be errors that are introduced as a result of the vast initial data entry work that needs to be done. That is why Dave has a thread up for Tournament Pack previews, where these errors can be fixed.

It is just a consequence of timing that the EEC occurred at a time when the old tournament pack does not include tyranids, and the new tournament pack is not really ready. Brumbaer is right that he cannot be expected to know the correct stat for every single list, and he has to choose ONE list that everyone is bound to. With the mess of lists we have, it seems reasonable to request the latest versions from the ACs and use those. Could it have been done slightly differently once errors were found? Maybe. But none of us is blessed with the ability to see the future. So I think we just have to chalk it up to experience and move on, with the expectation that this will be less of an issue in future.

If you would like to play your part in helping ensure the NetEA lists are accurate, I would suggest you pay a visit to the TP 2014 preview thread, download it, check the lists for your armies in detail and report any errors so they can be fixed.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Regarding the lists
Page 1 of this thread is where I looked for information - 2 files on there 1) EEC rules 2) NetEA 2013 tournament pack.

I downloaded those in months ago, as did all the UK team and probably some others, to write my own list and look at the other lists available.

Finding the Tyranid list was not there I looked in the nid forum and downloaded the Approved Tyranid list.

The only mention of the lists being transcribed on to another file is buried on page 3 of the thread, if that had been added to the opening post people might have looked at it, or even know it was there. I had no knowledge it was there until Friday night

It is simply not true that the 2013 NetEA tournament pack has
6+ RA Gorgons
Single shot Deathstrike Silos
No coordinated fire for Tau
No indirect fire for Biovores

The only file I can find with those errors is the 2014 tournament preview which is work in progress currently and being checked for typos, hardly the best document to base the lists on.

This would have been a non-issue if when it was noticed on Friday night, after everybody had used the NetEA 2013 tournament pack to make their lists (the pack they have made for tournaments), then some common sense had been used and the stats that everyone knows were correct were adopted. As it was the players were blamed for not finding a non-publicised file and the farcical statements of how lists had been built with these stats in mind were made. No shame in admitting mistakes.

Thankfully the referees used common sense and allowed the correct stats to be used.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I only said the 6+ was there and it wasn't.

I agree on that now, I checked 3 times and I always saw a 6+. I looked again after your post and it is a 4+.
A serious case of seeing what you want to see. I probably looked at it and took in the 6 from Firefight.

I never doubted that the other stuff was different.
And as I said before, a day before the tournament is too short notice to make changes.

I apologise for the confusion, put my foot in the mouth and let the grown ups handle the rest.

One very important thing to remember here is that people will always talk more about what could be better than about what was great. For me, the issues we are discussing on the forums after the tournament are real, but it was an amazing experience I hope to repeat, and the Berlin team did an excellent job overall!

Well done, guys!