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The Squats: Reloaded

 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:14 am 
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Hi Curis,

and thanks for your PM.  :)) I'll answer here for everybody's benefit.

1.  Robots are listed as infantry, but have the Walker special rule.  Should they be armoured vehicle, light vehicles, or infantry (in which case they shouldn't have the Walker special rule)?


Well, Walker is not for vehicles only. Infantry too can be subject to difficult terrain tests. There's even a precedent with Baran's Sappers, who gained the Walker special rule in order to avoid getting killed by their own barbed wire.  :p  Robots are more resilient than humans and Walker + Invulnerable Save is just one way to represent this without giving them Reinforced Armour.

The Tarantula is mounted, but the Mole Mortars and Thudd Guns aren't.  Should they all be mounted as they're artillery pieces?  Or is it intentional?

I guess it would make more sense of all three had the Mounted special rule, but the Thudd Gun and Mole Mortar models have no tracks of any kind, while the Tarantula is mounted on small tracks. So yes, it is intentional even though it's not the most logical thing.  :p

Ahhh, I assume you've taken the list down as now Kharhadrim's Stronghold has been rolled up into COMPENDIUM 2.0_EN.pdf.

Yes, that's it.  :))

I forgot to post the changes from the previous version. Here they are:

UNITS

Guild Master
Is no longer Inspiring but Commander instead. Much more logical and it leaves the Inspiring thing for the Living Ancestor only.

Goliath
Loses Macro-Weapon but gains Ignore Cover and Penetrating Shot.
Small downgrade here (although IC + Penetrating Shot can be nasty).

Overlord
Speed goes up to 20 cm.

Colossus/Cyclope
Go back to 3 Void Shields.

Army list

Berserkers
Cost goes up to 225 points.

Warriors
Gain access to the "Thunderer" and "Leviathan" upgrades.

Grand Battery
Cost goes up to 175 points.

Robot Cohort
Cost reduced to 175 points. (This will be included in the next version only, as I forgot to make the change in the Compendium)

Leviathan
Is no longer a support formation but an upgrade to the Warrior Brotherhood in order to the min-maxing of Leviathans. As a compensation, its cost is reduced to 300 points.

Thunderfire
The upgrade is now "2 for 75 points".

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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:54 pm 
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penetrating shot?


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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Thanks Hojyn!

I've packed my Squats up and will be rocking them out tomorrow evening.

Well, Walker is not for vehicles only.


Apologies for that.  I've only encountered Infantry with Walker in the White Scars list before.  I assumed Robots had it as a hangover from a time they were either Armoured or Light Vehicles.  My mistake.

I guess it would make more sense of all three had the Mounted special rule, but the Thudd Gun and Mole Mortar models have no tracks of any kind, while the Tarantula is mounted on small tracks.

I think you're confusing your artillery pieces.

Thudd Guns were wheeled and were driven by little tractor units.






Mole Mortars are kinda man-portable (Squat-portable).






Tarantulas weren't "mounted on small tracks", but on gravitic plates.  In Rogue Trader they could even leap in the air to perform pop-up attacks.  If anything they're the most mobile (and hence least deserving of Mounted) of the artillery pieces.






Rapier Laser Destroyers (which aren't in your list) were tracked.


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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:37 pm 
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Thanks for the info, Curis. Looks like I had it all wrong.  :p

OK, so why not give Mounted to all 3 pieces of artillery? They would all be on an equal footing, then.


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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ 03 Jun. 2009, 12:54 )

penetrating shot?

Penetrating Shot is a new ability for the Squat list, more specifically for the Cyclops' Hellfury Cannon but designed to be re-usable for any list. Here's what it does:

Some weapons are capable of inflicting heavy damage to the most resistant targets, be it through the use of devastating firepower or a rare and "exotic" technology
(EMP, Warp, etc.).

Any target hit by a weapon with the Penetrating Shot special ability suffers a -1 save modifier. In addition to this, a Penetrating Shot weapon will inflict critical
damage to War Engines on a roll of 5+ instead of the usual 6+.


Like I said, it was meant for the Hellfury Cannon, but I think it could be used for the Goliath shells as well, given their description in "Ork and Squat Warlords" ("A Goliath shell can blast apart the strongest fortifications like matchwood or shatter a super-heavy tank.").





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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Quote: (Hojyn @ 04 Jun. 2009, 12:41 )

Like I said, it was meant for the Hellfury Cannon, but I think it could be used for the Goliath shells as well, given their description in "Ork and Squat Warlords" ("A Goliath shell can blast apart the strongest fortifications like matchwood or shatter a super-heavy tank.").

Surely Titan Killer would fit the better?

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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:45 pm 
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2 questions about squat list in the Compendium
1)
it's somehow strange, that Leviathan is an upgrade.
a) AFAIUnderstand it's not real to load it up with 2 warrior formations anymore, as it can transport only his own formation. only combo to fully load it is warriors+warr.upgr.+hearthguards.
b) AFAIU it do not count to the "1/3 titans" limit anymore - so there's powergaming way to take, e.g., 4*(warriors+Leviathan=525)+Goliath battary+Cyclops(4 megacannons + 4 penetrator blasts + one hell of TK/macro shots) and just go blast anyone. Or drop 1 leviathan formation and take whatever guard we need for that glass megacannons)

2)
Is there any real purpose for Hellfury to be Titan Killer AND macro? AFAIK, Titan Killer already ignores any save except invulnerable, or am I wrong? And am I right, that penetrating shot there do not penetrate any save(as they're ignored) and just adds higher probability of crits?




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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Quote: (netepic @ 04 Jun. 2009, 15:15 )

Quote: (Hojyn @ 04 Jun. 2009, 12:41 )

Like I said, it was meant for the Hellfury Cannon, but I think it could be used for the Goliath shells as well, given their description in "Ork and Squat Warlords" ("A Goliath shell can blast apart the strongest fortifications like matchwood or shatter a super-heavy tank.").

Surely Titan Killer would fit the better?

I'm afraid a TK barrage weapon would be way too powerful. Only the Eldar Cobra has it IIRC, and it's on a 30 cm range weapon, not a long-range weapon like the Goliath.

I think (well, I hope) that Penetrating Shot shows how powerful it is, both against regular troops and war engines.


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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Quote: (Guns_Linger @ 06 Jun. 2009, 14:45 )

2 questions about squat list in the Compendium
1)it's somehow strange, that Leviathan is an upgrade.
a) AFAIUnderstand it's not real to load it up with 2 warrior formations anymore, as it can transport only his own formation. only combo to fully load it is warriors+warr.upgr.+hearthguards.

Yes, it's been done on purpose to limit the list's versatiliy. What's more, the Leviathan's first role is troop transport.

b) AFAIU it do not count to the "1/3 titans" limit anymore - so there's powergaming way to take, e.g., 4*(warriors+Leviathan=525)+Goliath battary+Cyclops(4 megacannons + 4 penetrator blasts + one hell of TK/macro shots) and just go blast anyone. Or drop 1 leviathan formation and take whatever guard we need for that glass megacannons)


It never counted in the 1/3 limit. I chose not to include it in the WE section so as to allow the Squat player to have more WE than other armies (they have no aircraft, after all) without forcing him to choose between too many options (Leviathan, Cyclops, Colossus, Overlord, Land Train, Goliath).

Your list has only 6 very slow activations, no mobile reserve to capture/defend objectives and no air defense. I really don't think it's unbalanced.

2)
Is there any real purpose for Hellfury to be Titan Killer AND macro? AFAIK, Titan Killer already ignores any save except invulnerable, or am I wrong?

Yes, but all TK weapons are also MW weapons. Look at all the other army lists.

And am I right, that penetrating shot there do not penetrate any save(as they're ignored) and just adds higher probability of crits?

For the Hellfury Cannon, yes, the -1 to save is irrelevant (except against Necrons and their Living Metal). This is meant for other, non-TK weapons (like the Goliath, for example).





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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:37 pm 
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and another one - now I think just a misprint
at the end section it says: Colossus, Cyclops, Leviathan and Land Train formations have In 1+, everyone other 2+
As there's now no "Leviathan" formations as is, is it right that formation of warriors with Leviathan transport upgrade have In 1+ ?
=============
and just a gamer question: how it happened that squats(=space dwarfs) have so fragile infantry everywhere? why there's no at least hearthguard formation? and how warrior/berserker brotherhoods are supposed to be played, except of tunneling to the objectives? In no way I'm insulting anybody, that's really cool list, and squat War Engines are awesome, but basic lads...what to do with them?)




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 Post subject: The Squats: Reloaded
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Could you make a stand-alone version of the Squat list again? That is without the compendium.

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