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Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
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Author:  epilgrim [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0

The purpose behind this effort is to offer Epic Armageddon players a pair of unique lists highlighting different facets of the Homeworlds derived from a common pool of units. Both army lists will retain their unique look and feel, but we recognized the need for commonality. We look forward to the Epic community’s reactions, comments and playtest results as we continue to refine the composition of each army.

all the best, enjoy - Jaldon and epilgrim


the following Special Rule applies to all Squat and Demiurg fomations with the noted exception of Robots/Autonoms.

Stubborn - Troops with this special ability are hard to break in assaults, and will rally quicker then other troops to get back into the fight and the following two rules represent this:
(1) Assault: they re-roll any die result of "1" during Assault Resolution. The re-roll result must be kept even if it is a "1".
(2) Rally: they ignore the -1 modifier for enemy formations with 30cm during the Rally phase.


Units Descriptions

Squat Living Ancestor / Demiurg Merchant Prince
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Character / n/a / n/a / n/a / n/a
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Master-Crafted Weapon / (base contact) / Assault Weapons / Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Supreme Commander, Inspiring, Invulnerable Save


Squat Warlord / Demiurg Legate Marshal
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Character / n/a / n/a / n/a / n/a
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Master-Crafted Weapon / (base contact) / Assault Weapons / Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Commander, Leader, Invulnerable Save


Demiurg Trade Factor
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Character / n/a / n/a / n/a / n/a
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Master-Crafted Weapon / (base contact) / Assault Weapons / Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Leader

Squat Lord
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Infantry / 15cm / 5+ / 4+ / 5+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Auto Cannon / 45cm / AP5+/AT6+ / -
Lasguns / (15cm) / small arms / -
notes: Leader

These two units are similar in function, but they are used differently in each list, due to the cultural and organizational differences between the Strongholds and the Consortium.


Squat / Demiurg Hearthguard
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Infantry / 15cm / 4+ / 4+ / 4+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Master-Crafted Pistols / (15cm) / Small Arms / -
Master-Crafted Battle Axes / (base contact) / Assault Weapons / Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1) Heirloom Weapons / 45cm / AP 5+/AT 5+ / -
Notes: Reinforced Armour, this unit takes up 2 Transport slots


Squat Guild Master
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Infantry / 30cm / 4+ / 3+ / 5+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Master-Crafted Pistols / (15cm) / Small Arms / -
Power Lance / (base contact) / Assault Weapons / Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Leader, Mounted, Reinforced Armour

This unit is unique to the Squat list, similar to the Squat Lord, but appearing in bike and trike formations..


Demiurg Hearthguard Cavalry
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Infantry / 30cm / 4+ / 3+ / 5+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Master-Crafted Pistols / (15cm) / Small Arms / -
Power Lances (base contact) / Assault Weapons / Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Mounted, Reinforced Armour

This unit/formation is unique to the Demiurg.


Squat Warriors / Demiurg Iron-Breakers
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Infantry / 15cm / 5+ / 5+ / 5+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Lasguns / (15cm) / Small Arms / -
Missile Launcher / 45cm / AP 5+/AT 6+ / -
Notes: n/a


Squat Thunderers / Demiurg Armsmen
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Infantry / 15cm / 5+ / 6+ / 4+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
2x Missile Launchers / 45cm / AP 5+/AT 6+ / -
Notes: n/a


Squat Bezerkers / Demiurg Sappers (“Sandhogsâ€Â
Author:  rpr [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Swell! Great work!
I see many great improvements/balanced things here; I especially like the reducal of 'too many BP weapons' problem in colossus (although it still has non-macro and macro BP which does not combine well..) and land train changes.

Some "oddities":
- thunderfire AA is weak... sounds like one hydra without any other functionality. Id an unit is so limited hopefully it could giver some effective AA cover, like 3x AA4+ or something
- seems like heartguard / mounted has RA 4+ - isn't that a bit tough? Are they like terminators? (it also seems that datafax of squat guild master and demiurg hg cavalry are identical yet they are as separate entries)
- those trikes are still insanely good... (as a general consideration, why is squat/demiurg bikes/trikes armour 4+ while ork similarities have 5+ ?)

I haven't made up my mind about that mega-cannon or tunnellers change yet.
I still do not like that tunnellers are setup before spaceship has to choose its target, would make orbital barrages a lot better.
Author:  Erik M [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Thanks, a BIG thanks.

- seems like heartguard / mounted has RA 4+ - isn't that a bit tough? Are they like terminators? (it also seems that datafax of squat guild master and demiurg hg cavalry are identical yet they are as separate entries)
Yes, they are though as nails in their exo-armours.
If you re-read the text you see that squat guild masters act as leader units and demiurg heartguard cavalry is a formation.

- those trikes are still insanely good... (as a general consideration, why is squat/demiurg bikes/trikes armour 4+ while ork similarities have 5+ ?)
You can't compare squat technical know-how to orkish god devined tinkering.  :p
Author:  rpr [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Quote: (Hena @ 18 Aug. 2008, 09:52 )

Edit: rpr remember that Thunderfire has range of 60cm. Their AA umbrella is quite large.

I know, but they are immobile and do nothing else than perform weak AA.
So hydras are like 5x better. They can be like this, of course, but should cost like 50-75 points for a formation of 2. And as models are sparse and BIG, I think they deserve better AA especially if they are so limited otherwise.
Author:  rpr [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Quote: (Erik M @ 18 Aug. 2008, 09:33 )

If you re-read the text you see that squat guild masters act as leader units and demiurg heartguard cavalry is a formation.

I know, but they still are identical, so that's why I am asking about the separation.
(hm, shouldn't guild master have leader or something...)
Author:  epilgrim [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
(hm, shouldn't guild master have leader or something...)

yeah...that was an editing error on my part. Jaldon may have a specific correction, as he is revising his veiw of the Guild Master, so I will defer to him before I make any corrections. Thanks rpr!




From rpr: "I know, but they are immobile and do nothing else than perform weak AA.
So hydras are like 5x better. They can be like this, of course, but should cost like 50-75 points for a formation of 2. And as models are sparse and BIG, I think they deserve better AA especially if they are so limited otherwise.

Some "oddities":
- thunderfire AA is weak... sounds like one hydra without any other functionality. Id an unit is so limited hopefully it could giver some effective AA cover, like 3x AA4+ or something
- seems like heartguard / mounted has RA 4+ - isn't that a bit tough? Are they like terminators? (it also seems that datafax of squat guild master and demiurg hg cavalry are identical yet they are as separate entries)
- those trikes are still insanely good... (as a general consideration, why is squat/demiurg bikes/trikes armour 4+ while ork similarities have 5+ ?)

I haven't made up my mind about that mega-cannon or tunnellers change yet."

from Hena: "Trike. FF5+ would be more suitable. Currently it seems like almost better version of SM Land Speeder (better FF vs skimmer and 5cm lower speed)."

Keep in mind that this is v1 and plenty of changes may occur. We believe that we have arrived at a positive consolidation of our individual efforts and experiences. That being said the shake-out of the lists and these unit descriptions are only waiting for fresh playtesting by our friends. Play a "balanced" army, do min-maxing, break the lists and report back!




Some questions however can be addressed more directly:

from rpr: "I still do not like that tunnellers are setup before spaceship has to choose its target, would make orbital barrages a lot better."

The timing was specifically thought out to avoid "easy kills".  :ghost:  




From Hena: "Colossus. Would be worthwhile to go with 6 x One shot missiles? Plasma Missiles usage is very, very limited at the moment.

Those with AA weapons, don't need to write Flak in their notes .

Is the particle shielding / void shield split really needed?"

On the Colossus Plasma Missiles: this issue was discussed in depth, based on the utility of the Iron Hawk spotter, which allows the Colossus to Advance, Double, Marshal or Hold and fire indirectly, we felt that was more than enough of an advantage and no special weapons rules were needed. The fact that combining the Doomsday Cannon with the Plasma Missiles strips the MW ability of the Doomsday Cannon was deliberate.

The idea of using one-shot was also discussed, however KISS won that discussion. Bookkeeping on a weapon with 6x one-shots will not appear in these lists.

On Flak in the notes: personal style, nothing more.  :cool:

Particle Shielding vs. Void Shields: Jaldon and I wanted to illustrate the Squats and Demiurg as one people with organizational, cultural and technological differences. This is one such case. In the end it is no more different than the Eldar and Dark Eldar relying on different technologies.


Thanks for the comments so far!
Author:  rpr [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Quote: (epilgrim @ 18 Aug. 2008, 14:36 )

from rpr: "I still do not like that tunnellers are setup before spaceship has to choose its target, would make orbital barrages a lot better."


The timing was specifically thought out to avoid "easy kills".  :ghost:  
Ah, sorry, my bad, I read it too quickly and did not notice that it had changed to be after spacecrafts... :]  
But I still wonder why a) target must be decided before doing the launch and b) they must be set-up before any other forces but still c) act as others.
Why would the tunnellers be there on their location even before those movement 0cm units? :]  Could at least the setup be like with other units...
Author:  epilgrim [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
But I still wonder why a) target must be decided before doing the launch and b) they must be set-up before any other forces but still c) act as others.
Why would the tunnellers be there on their location even before those movement 0cm units? :]  Could at least the setup be like with other units...

A) it is like using Drop Pods, without having to pay for the Spacecraft, never really thought of seeing it any other way. My guess is a lot of folk would have a huge problem with them plotting a target with units on the table...

B) given the advatages (they can move anywhere without being attacked, and the opponent realistically has only one turn to deal with them without knowing where they will turn up) making them set up first seemed fair and keeping with the concepts of Planetfall.

C) Making them activate on a initiative "1" seemed like a fun concept and adds a little drama and risk. It also discourages an all TBM army, which would be a decidedly dull game. There had been a suggeestion of an artifical limit on TBM formations, but given that they are a mining culture, that seemed very implausible.

Lastly, we can't see these being set up like garrisons or other 0cm speed units, hence they have specific set-up restrictions. Keep in mind these have almost no defensive or offensive prowess, tactics dictate that they be deployed well to the rear.
Author:  epilgrim [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
We are both taking our time to revise the army lists, which is necessary.

For now please use the current lists with these stats. Playtest results, especially "broken" lists will offer the most useful data.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Thanks. I'll give the Squats a try as soon as I can.
Author:  Erik M [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Anyone up for placing the above into a PDF?
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
I'll probably get stuck with that - er, I mean I'll be happy to do that.  ePilgrim's local so he'll be able to get me immediate feedback if I screw it up.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Squat and Demiurg Consolidation List Draft v1.0
Yeah, a pdf would be handy.
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