Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 5
  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Squats revisited, part I
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Dear fellow Epic:A players,

I've looked at the presented squat army lists and found them somewhat wanting.
Get me right, they are ok, but either not "squatish" or not adjusted to what models you have.

My first job here was to base a box in some sort of nice order. After alot of thought I ended up with the following:

Does it look ok?
Backrow:
Guild Trike; Guild Master; Mole Mortar; Heart Guard; Master Smither; Robot & Thudd Gun.
Front row:
Brotherhood; Thunderers; Guild Bikes; Brotherhood & Berzerkers.

From ten sprues you get ten each of these (the robots elsewhere from) and that's the second question...
Edit: Heart Guard and Master Smither are five units each.

Would detachments of six units be ok?
(Ie Brotherhood, Thunderers, Berzerkers, Guild Bikers, Guild Trikes, Mole Mortars & Thudd Guns.)

For obvious reasons there's no points or equipments so far. Also no background (as I'm not about to change it).

What I'm after right now is if you people like the feel of this set-up.

Yours
Erik




_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Ok, no comments so far. I'll add the next little part then.
Basic stats. But still no points etc.

Brotherhood
Type Infantry Speed 15cm  AR 6+ CC 5+  FF 5+
2x Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+

Thunderers
Type Infantry Speed 15cm  AR 6+ CC 5+  FF 4+
Missile Launcher 45cm AP5+/AT6+
AutoCannon 45cm AP5+/AT6+

Berzerkers
Type Infantry Speed 15cm  AR 6+ CC 3+  FF 6+

Guild Bikers
Type Infantry Speed 35cm  AR 5+ CC 4+  FF 6+

Guild Trikes
Type Lght Vehicle Speed 35cm  AR 5+ CC 5+  FF 5+
Multi-Melta 15cm MW5+

Acceptable so far?
As can be seen I've gone closer to IG and Orks than to the Space Marines most seem to do.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Kleomenes
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:39 pm
Posts: 227
I definitely agree that upgunned/tougher IG are the order of the day, not sub-par SM.

Personally Id have given the brotherhoods missile launchers, 1 per stand so they had 1x45cm AP5+ AT6+, a fairly tried and tested troop type.

Then give the thunderers 3x heavy bolters :)

Beserkers could be CC4+ FF5+. Bikers CC5+ FF5+

Thats judging them as per the old 40k Squat rules, where they were basically tougher, better HtH IG.

_________________
They are free, yes, but not entirely free; for they have a master, and that master is Law.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:37 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Thanks.

The reason for the "2 Hvy Blt" is because that's how they come on sprue.
Ie we can give the Thunderers even 3 AC/HB and still one for the Brotherhood. But there's not enough ML to go around to give them Broterhoods one each.

And giving everyone AP and AT feel an overkill. Thus 2 AP for B-hood and 2 AP/AT for Thunderers.

However you go into a firefight you have to think about it this way.

More thoughts highly welcome.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Hello Erik... are you the chap I met in Warhammer World on Friday?

If so, welcome to the board, I was very interested by your ideas for the Squats.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
I hope I'm welcome and have interesting ideas even if I'm almost certainly not that chap... I'm in Sweden...  :;):

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Weird, I met a guy who claimed to read Tac Comms who had very similar thoughts to yours!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Curis
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Manchester, England
That was me E&C!  What a bizarre coincidence that was.

I'm going to get some of my Squat photo, rules and stuff up in the next few days.  I do agree the current fanlists are unbalanced (How many weapons on the 450 points Colossus?!), inaccurate (Why do Termites have weapons?) and downright nonsensical (What exactly is going on in the garbled entry for Robots?!)

However, before I publicly decried them, I wanted my own alternative that had been rigorously playtested and researched as a starting point for their development.  Furthermore, I wanted to become a little more established in the Epic Community before I simply jumped in rubbishing the established rules and came across as annoying little upstart.

I've been working through iterations with a variety of opponent.  When the rules and army list stabilise I'll post them up and start a new discussion.

Anyway, I did so happen to bump into E&C at Warhammer World on Friday as I was gearing up my 40K army for the Warhammer Player Society Club Challenge.  We discussed this in much depth and I admired his cast up Titans.

(By the way, I finished painting that Dredd and went on to win the trophy for best army.)




_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Nice work on winning best painted!

You may have seen me walk up to take the trophy for 1st prize in the Epic tournament... that was because I was picking it up on behalf of the real winner (Who'd gone home earlier) however. :D

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Pulsar
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 726
Location: London
welcome to the boards both of you and good luck with the squats!


and shouldn't we be calling them DEMIURG!!!!! :D




_________________
"Dyslexia is a Privilege, not a right"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
zombocom
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:40 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569

(Pulsar @ May 25 2008,23:09)
QUOTE
and shouldn't we be calling them DEMIURG!!!!! :D

No. Demiurg are not squats. Different thing entirely. Demiurg are a semi-serious idea, a race of weird looking space miners.

Squats are a comedy idea, a race of weird looking space biker miners.

Not the same thing at all.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Curis
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:12 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Manchester, England
I completely failed to see you.  I was deliberately sat towards the back of the Hall so the walk to the front could be prolonged and savoured.

We also surprised everyone by winning the legendary Club Challenge Shield!


_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:27 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
I love being a snotty little upstart! :D

Care to send me your army list and maybe we then don't need two new discussions?

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Curis
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:30 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Manchester, England
Sorry Erik, I wasn't calling you snotty.  :p

I very much like the stats you've come up with so far. I think I should adopt the 5+ armour for my Guild Bikers and Trikes.

Here's a short introduction to the thinking that's behind the list I'm currently playtesting.

INTENT

To have one generic Squat list which gamers can use to field their collections of Squat models.  This list needs to be in line with the existing Epic Armageddon lists in terms of gaming power.  In fact, it should be slightly under-powered so it doesn't come across as fanwanky.

I feel that the list should have a massive variety of units and lots of flexibility.  This will leave it prone to abuse by powergamers, but then they're power gaming Squats.  And also the fact they've got to track down lots of rare OOP models should put them off abusing the list.

I understand that just because they're Squats, there will never be an official tournament list.  (I'm working on an Ork army currently so I can attend tournaments.)  However, getting them accepted as of similar quality to the lists in Raiders, or even "experimental" would be fantastic.  There were models and supplements released for them back in the day, there's a good case for having semi-official rules available through GW.


NEW UNITS

I don't want to develop the 40K background and introduce new troop types and units.  All the units in the list will be the ones Squats had available in Ork and Squat Warlords, plus anything that cropped up afterwards in White Dwarf (Cyclops and Thunderfire).  Added to this will be anything that the Squats could field in the first two editions of 40K.

Yes, there are gaps in battlefield roles (Titans, fliers) but they're part of the army's character and so shouldn't be filled.


SQUATS OR DEMIURG?

Squats.  Demiurg aren't Squats, they're an unrelated race that just so happen to fulfil the same dwarf archetype in the 40K universe.  Squats.  If you find the name too cringeworthy, then they can be the equally-canon "Space Dwarves".  Not Demiurg.  Not Daewar.  Not Corians.  Squats.


FOUNDATIONS OF THE LIST

When I first got my Squats I fielded them using the Thurgrim's Stronghold list.  I was a new-comer to the EA ruleset, and so shouldn't have written my own rules.  As I've learnt the game, and faced off against various armies the flaws in the list have become apparent.  I've used it as a starting point for writing my own list.  A lot of it has been ripped out (all those different characters, Spartans), rewritten in light of playtesting (Robots, Colossus) and toned down (Stubborn and that ridiculous 5+ Armour).


UNITS NOT COVERED

I've only started out with the infantry.  I've avoided the more exotic War Engines for now as they're quite difficult.  Thoughts welcome.  Especially the Land Train, it's awkward with all those Battle Cars.


Squat Unit Summary (26th May)

Squat Army List(26th May)

Here's a picture of one of the schemes I tried with.  It's the scheme I did my 40K scale army in.  Problem is that it looks good close up, but those browns and greens means it blends in with the battlefield straight away.  I'm currently trying some bronze and copper schemes, with bright oranges.



Thoughts?

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
The thunderers were based 4 heavy bolter and 1 missile launcher, with troopers being las and heavy bolter.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 5
  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net