Also if there is more than 2 hits,
How often does that happen when facing AA?
In my experience, not often.
Certain elements of gameyness is very hard to remove.
I contend that it's very easy to remove if you make the plane fly solo.
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| The 2DC Marauder Bomber http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=12343 |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
What if instead of this beast being 2DC with a 6+ save, and flying around in pairs (With the resultant 'sending in the healthy one first' messing about), we went for something like the following: - Maruder Bomber - 2DC - 4+ Save - 3BP (Fixed Forward) - Twin Lascannon (Fixed Foward) - Twin Heavy Bolter (All Round) - Twin Heavy Bolter (Rear Arc) And instead of fielding them as pairs, fielded them as singles, ala: 1 Marauder Bomber (Arkurion Pattern) - 150 Points. I think fielding the 'heavy' version of the Marauder in pairs might be unbalancing them (Due to the mechanics of the aircraft section of the rules, I think it might be unavoidable too). |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
Everyone else I believe always had their save as 6+. With 3BP, Lascannon and defensive weapons they were fine at 300 points for 2. 4+ save is a little high! |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
I'm just spitballing from the starting point that I've found flights of two super-heavy bombers to be: - A bit Gamey (Always sending in the undamaged Marauder first) - Slightly too vulnerable (Which nessesitates the use of the gamey tactic mention above) as compared to their 40k equivilents (They're not much easier to kill than a Thunderhawk Gunship). What if they had a 5+ armour save? |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
They get tougher? The idea was to become more surivable and having 2dc did that without needing a big save (15/36 chance of death compared to 5/36 for one hit). |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
I thought the idea with the 2DC stat was simply to make the stats reflect the FW model / 40k / the background (Basically everything that isn't Epic) where the Marauder is a super-heavy flyer of comparable size to the Thunderhawk Gunship. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
Aircraft seem to have true-armour stats. Thats all around armour value 10 equals in Epic to Light Vehicle status und a 6+ save (see Sentinels) but if it is a Skimmer it's save increases to 4+. But aircraft don't benefit from this. Insterad they canonly be hot by deidcated AA weapons. Marauders have all around armour value 10. So i don't see them getting a better save than 6+. In Wh40k a Thunderhawk has 3 DC same as a Marauder. But in Epic the Thunderhawk has only 2DC. So the Marauder should have 2 DC in Epic too. But why wouldit be gamey to have always the lesser damaged aircraft at the front? If find it entirely believable that a pilot of an undamaged aircraft would protect his damaged friend/s from enemy attacks. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
I always went with WWII medium bomber for a size and firepower comparison. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
Even a WW2 medium bomber (Heinkel He111, Junker Ju88, etc) can withstand more damage than a Fighter (Messerschmitt Bf109, Spitfire, etc) or a Fighter-Bomber (Ju87 Stuka, etc). |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
Marauders have all around armour value 10. Ah, I thought it was 11's at the front and sides. I still think that armour 4 or 5+ would be more suitable than armour 6+. A Thunderhawk only has armour 12, 12 & 10 (A far cry from a Leman Russ' 14/12/10) in 40k, yet it has 4+ RA in Epic (Ie: Because it dropped a DC, its armour became better to compensate, so the Marauder should gain the same benefit IMHO). But why wouldit be gamey to have always the lesser damaged aircraft at the front? If find it entirely believable that a pilot of an undamaged aircraft would protect his damaged friend/s from enemy attacks. Because you can always predict 100% accurately where incoming fire will hit your plane, externally of the simulation you can guarantee that the undamaged plane will take the first hit, which makes things quite gamey. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
(BlackLegion @ Apr. 14 2008,16:45) QUOTE Even a WW2 medium bomber (Heinkel He111, Junker Ju88, etc) can withstand more damage than a Fighter (Messerschmitt Bf109, Spitfire, etc) or a Fighter-Bomber (Ju87 Stuka, etc). Hence 2dc! |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
PLus of course the singles get an activation advantage. But just one bomber? Bit lonely isn't it? Not very Epic unless its carrying that MOAB. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
Also if there is more than 2 hits, How often does that happen when facing AA? In my experience, not often. Certain elements of gameyness is very hard to remove. I contend that it's very easy to remove if you make the plane fly solo.
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 2DC Marauder Bomber |
A lone Marauder is out of the question for me. At least one Marauder and his Wingman has to be in one formation. Oh and isn't the army structure of the Imperial Guard copied from the British Army? So non-Armageddon Flights should be consisting of 3-6 aircrafts iirc for WW2 Flights. |
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