The energy output alone would be reason enough, but there is the matter of safety.  A ten foot fall in a 2G to 3G world would be deadly in all probability and machines skimming along at high speeds and low altitudes (< 500 feet) would be death traps.  Hal Clement's Mission of Gravity was a novel I read as a kid and it takes these experiences to an extreme- a great (and quick) read if you can find the book at the library or at the store.  You can read about the science of it here if you are interested. Clement was certainly rooted in his science and a good writer to boot.

Overlords, on the other hand, are giant balloons that would operate in almost any atmosphere.  Falling is still a concern but they stay up because they are light, not because of raw force.

Once again, there are lots of things in the 40K universe that make no sense.  This is just one of those things I am compelled to mention at least once to say "I told you so" if something ever comes up about it.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Don't everybody panic here but, pssssst (whisper) the original army champions would email each other off the web to discuss army list issues without posting. Most of the time it was to toss around more radical ideas or list direction ideas which would only have caused a firestorm of posts on the forum. This would have taken away from the work being done on the list in the forum.(End Whisper)

Like it or not but both Epilgrim and I are the despot Army Champions for the Squat/Demiurg lists. Communication between us off the forum is only normal for Army Champions, but be assured nothing secretive is happening (We aren't plotting a takeover of GW or Tactical Command). But it does allow him and I to discuss the more sensitive issues, for him and I, without putting it out in the ether for everybody to see and comment on (In other words how childish can a designer get is best left off the forum).

BUT, both of us have decided to do something about the lists, and are willing to put it out there for everybody to work on. If it is decided that my Armor stat of 5+ just isn't going to wash and most of the group involved here feels that way then so be it, 5+ goes the way of the Dodo.

This is the point I really doubt that without all of you Epilgrim and I would be able to come to any kind of concensus, not that we are stupid, but it is hard to accept failings in the work you have done in competition with another who also feels strongly about what they have done. Hence we DO need all of you to push us over the edge to take the dive. Otherwise I doubt it would ever get done.

For my part I want to stick as close to the old Squat background as much as is possible, so the Iron Eagle stays as it appears on the old list and in the old background. Going forward it would also fit that the Demiurg would have a flying version of the same.

As for Stubborn as designed for Thurgrimm's, until someone comes up with something better it has to stay, but I am wide open to any suggestions. The only thought I have, and I know it was suggested but sorry I forgot who, that we limit the 3D6/2D6 roll to Infantry Only Squat Formations (Warriors, Bezerkers, Hearthguard, Thunderers).

For now it seems that 'A' is leading the pack as for army direction.

Note that without a chosen background we will not know in what direction to take the similarities/differences for both lists. However that doesn't mean that all work has to stop on the lists till that is decided. In fact it shouldn't so that when the time comes the transition work will be easier, besides the background direction isn't going to take that long to hash out.

Thanks All...............

Jaldon

PS I am not long winded, I just type real fast

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I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

I figured you'd sort it out, J54 !

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

the Iron Eagle stays as it appears on the old list and in the old background

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I knew it would.    I just had to say something just cuz.

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

"...Like it or not but both Epilgrim and I are the despot Army Champions for the Squat/Demiurg lists...."
Thank you, I wanted to hear that out loud.
Having someone distinctly in charge helps a great deal.

So...

Do we have three distinct areas to go through?
1) Stats for every squat/demiurg/"vertically challenged 2G inhabitant".
2) Basic difference between bT and aT (before/after Tyranids).
3) Army list guidelines for aT and bT.

Yes, I believe we need a work schedule.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

If we knew what they were. :-) You're trying to make a logical arguement with no real idea how the tech would work.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

You can tell from the model that it is some type of turbine engine which operates off the principle of creating a high air pressure zone under the vehicle and a low pressure zone above it to counteract gravity - same as a helicopter or harrier or your shower curtain for that matter.  

I told you it was a nitpick.  I'm not going to cry over it.

Well, maybe just a little.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

2. There is less of a chance of the fiction stepping on the fickle toes of GW.  Not that I think they would do anything but still...

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

Some of you boyz get pretty worked up over these short, fat, bearded guyz with attitudes !  I got a whole bunch of'm ! Squats, Khazari, even Chaos Squats !
I've got confidence that J54 and the crew will work it out.

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Ah! Chaos Squats... There's the demiurg, right? Mixed up with them androids perhaps?

   

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

I've got confidence that J54 and the crew will work it out.

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

For the Demiurg the single biggest problem was the Tunneler rules. In an effort to get the benefit of cool models on the table, the rules I came up with were really clunky. I've cleaned them up considerably:

Tunnellers
Tunnellers are set up on their own table edge before the battle starts, at the same time that spacecraft are deployed (see 4.0). Any units transported in the tunnellers are kept off table until they surface. Write down the location where the tunneller will surface in the same manner that you record the co-ordinates of a drop zone (see 4.3.3).

Each tunneller formation must pass an activation test; if successful the tunneller models are removed from the table. It takes a tunneller formation 1 full turn to travel to any point on your table half and 2 full turns to travel to any point in your opponents table half.

Set up the tunnellers at the start of the turn when they surface as per the following rules; After the placing the first unit in a tunneller formation, center an orbital bombardment template over the model and place any other tunnellers in the same formation within that 12cm area. The troops carried in the tunnellers then must disembark within 5cm of their transport. The units being transported may take an action on the turn they appear.

If any enemy units are under the template, the Demiurg player must move the template the shortest distance needed to place the template without affecting any enemy models. Demiurg units may not be placed within any enemy zones of control.

Note: Tunneling requires you to deploy and activate the formation from Khthon cradles which are then removed from play at the end of the turn the tunnellers launch.

Tunnellers unlike drop pods remain on the table and count as Ruins as per 1.8.4 after the transported infantry disembark.

Important Note on Targeting TBM: While a Tunnel Boring Machine is mounted on its cradle they count as one unit. If an armour save is failed remove the TBM and the cradle, but assign only 1 BM per casualty. On-board infantry units save as per the normal rules for a destroyed transport. Any BM accumulated prior to the launching of TBM formations are removed after they launch.

Overwatch: Formations on Overwatch can declare attacks on disembarked TBM infantry immediately after the Strategy Phase on the turn they surface.

Additional changes:

A.S.G. Sandhogs - dropped Fearless, added +1 extra attack, no point changes
Cyclops - Hellfury revised to 2x 2+ MW TK (2)
Crucible cannon (Cyclops & Crucible Battle Car) - dropped flame template, revised to 2x 3+MW, Ignore Cover.
Termite - upped armour to 4+
Spacecraft - dropped Special Rules, lowered cost to 150, 300 respectively

that's all until Jaldon & I start comparing/contrasting/unifying our unit stats...

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

Hey guys,

Would you mind creating a pinned thread with links to the latest lists in them? I would find it helpful and I'm sure others would too.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

J54, you are the King of the Squat rules !             And Erik M, not to sound like like I'm working for Exodus Wars, but Tom the owner is a big Squat fan.   Or so it would appear, since his Khazari(short, fat guyz w/beards & attitude ! ) have bikes, mortars and some very cool Droids.  Sounds a bit like Demis ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."