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Testing Stubborn: a series of twelve 1,200 point matches using fairly standard infantry formations. An additional 100 points was given to each army for upgrades
As all of the lists were used to test variations on an assault or morale mechanic, as such, neither combined arms nor min-maxing was used. Overall the tests took a long time to resolve I was playing armchair general for about 15 hours?(ugh)
An additional 100 points was given to each army for upgrades
Space Marines:
2 tactical squads w/ rhinos +1 captain
1 devastator squad w/rhinos
2 Assault Squads +1 chaplain
Imperial guard:
3 Mechanized Infantry Companies +2 ogryns each for two companies
Orks:
1 ?uge Warband Mob +2 Kommandos and Warlord
2 Warband Mobz+ 1 boyz/grots each
2 Stormboyz Warhorde
Eldar
1 Warpspider Warhost +2 exarchs
1 Fire Dragon Warhost
1 Shining Spear Warhost +2 exarchs
1 Dark Reaper Warhost
Demiurg:
1 Iron-Breaker League Brotherhood (warriors) + trade factor (leader) +rhinos
1 Allied Sappers Guild Brotherhood (berserkers) + (trade factor)
1 Federated Master-Craftsmen Brotherhood (heavy weapons)
1 Merchant Service Journeymen Brotherhood (bikes)
1 Lineholder Grand Battery Brotherhood (tarantulas)
Both sides fought to control two of three objectives along the center of a 4? x 4? board
Dice rolls were tracked over each match averaging approximately 300 dice rolls, with the following average rolls: 1 (15%), 2 (17%), 3 (15%), 4 (18%), 5 (19%), 6 (16%).
The Stubborn options were tracked simultaneously with notes tacked onto the board at each event.
Basic conclusions: when faced with near equal numbers (Space Marines, Eldar) the Demiurg have a clear advantage in ranges attacks while still having enough assault units when they need to engage. This is always mitigated by the enemy having a higher Strategy Rating and better Initiative.
When faced with opponents that outnumber them (Imperial Guard, Orks), but with similar Strategy Ratings and Initiative the kill ratio generates two different strategies Overall the Orks were near impossible to wear down.
Observations
Space Marines: as expected the Marines low numbers per formation are always a management problem. ATSKNF helps a great deal; but in a straight up fight the Demiurg are a near statistical match for the Marines in all most every test. Demiurg averaged 2: 1
Imperial Guard: this yielded the most balance results as the firepower initially favors the IG, but the toughness of the Demiurg blunt much of their fire, and the activations and casualty rate eventually get the better of the IG. Taking three foot slogging companies and three Rough Rider platoons would have been more a of tactical challenge and given the IG more options. Demuirg averaged 3 - 0
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Orks: the Demiurg need to keep the range open and fight for the objectives as almost a secondary strategy. Whittling away the formations supporting the large mass of troops yielded the best result, but they eventually found themselves overwhelmed by the number of units. Clearly their toughest opponent in this test. Demiurg averaged 0 - 3
Eldar: the specialization and lack of ranges shooting make the results a mixed bag, when they combine on a single target they eliminate it, but leave themselves open to counter-fire. As the victory conditions created a lot of close quarters bashing; Eldar speed and maneuverability could not be used to full effect. Overall the Eldar won most assaults but were cut down and wiped out frequently by the Demiurg shooting. In normal games they typically produce more balanced results. Demiurg averaged 2: 1.
Option Evaluation
Space Marine ? The infantry could re-roll any close combat dice with a score of one, against Orcs it was a one or two.
Result: this creates heartache for the opponent as the re-rolls give the Demiurg a huge boost force more save throws. Against a near equal force, the Demiurg nearly double their assault wins due to boosted casualty rates.
Conclusion: this option cannot be used. ?
Epic 40,000 - The infantry could be upgraded to Veterans, making them Stubborn which allowed them to re-roll leadership tests.
Result: Similar to The Thurgrim Stronghold option, this result gave the Demiurg very good results in the rally phase after getting knocked back or roughed up. The formation sizes, composition and points costs in The Demiurg are somewhat different, and impact may be different in large formations, but the number of victories were only marginally better than the average
Conclusion: This is an option that stays in the hopper
Assault and Morale combined Variant:
Thurgrim?s Stronghold ? Squats are stubborn and are hard to break in assaults, and will rally quicker then other troops to get back into the fight and the following two rules represent this.
(1) Squats roll 3D6 in the final assault roll off, picking the single highest number rolled.
(2) Squats roll 2D6 for rallies picking the highest single number rolled.
Results: As noted the rally phase was not overly powerful regardless of the re-roll or 2nd (same odds). As for assault, more often than not the Demiurg topped the Marines and Guard, less well with the Eldar, and it only helped with the smaller Ork formations. Victory conditions overall favored the Demiurg (9 out of 12)
Conclusion: as stated earlier the Rally roll was fine, but the assault variation gave the Demiurg a big boost in assaults. I will test this again in a larger context.
Assault variants:
Demiurg Consortium ? All Demiurg are noted for their intractable nature. To represent this characteristic all Demiurg formations, except Autonom Cadres, are considered to be Inspiring and always add a +1 during each round of assault resolution. Note: A formation with a Merchant Prince will have a +2 modifier (+1 for the formation?s Stubborn attribute and +1 for the Merchant Prince?s character profile).
Results: this helped in marginal contests when the Marines or Elder rolled poorly. It was of little or no impact when faced off in FF with IG or CC with Orks.
Conclusion: this does not have a game winning feel to it as it only change the result of 1 game against the Eldar. This stays as a possibility.
Suggestion #1? The squat may choose to fight another round of combat instead of performing the resolution step.
Results: against Marines and Eldar this was a mistake and got the Demiurg killed (a lot!). It punished the IG and was only effective against small Ork formations.
Conclusion: Although it sounds like a good idea and seems to have a stubborn quality to it, the Demiurg died like crazy. This one has to go.
Suggestion #2 ? In Close Combat the Squat opponent does not gain the bonus for out numbering and out numbering by 2:1. OR the opponent does not get the bonus for out numbering, but does get the +1 bonus for outnumbering by 2:1
Results: fiddled with both variations, the first one was overwhelmingly bad for the opponent and I stopped playing it after the first game against Marines (they lost every assault!). The second one garnered results similar to the current Demiurg option, but showed up as a real advantage against intact IG companies and as suspected Orks.
Conclusions: The first variant is a no go. The second seems like it holds promise, but in larger contests where many of the Demiurg formations will be smaller, this becomes a huge disadvantage to horde units as their built in advantage disappears. This one gets crossed off.
Morale Variants:
Suggestion #3 ? Squats ignore the -1 modifier for enemy formations with 30cm during the Rally phase.
Results: pretty mild impact, still needing 2+ and 4+ to rally. Less useful than a re-roll.
Conclusion: this stays in the mix.
Suggestion #4 ? Give the Squats access to more than one Leader per formation.
Results: See #5
Conclusions: As initially suggested this is a dangerous ability, giving a nod to Fredmans, ?I will test a variation of multiple leaders with larger brotherhood formations.
Suggestion #5 ? The Squats are given the Leader ability as a Formation Ability. Additionally they would be able to add Leader stands to the formation.
Results: Only make the small formations more formidable. Tried this mix in the first game against marines, and rallied formations were unscathed at the start of each turn. The Marines were getting whittled down and the Demiurg kept coming on stronger.
Conclusions: this would require a review of formation size and point cost as it makes smaller formations and non-infantry formations more powerful. This is off the table.
Blast Marker Variants:
Suggestion #6 ? a toned down version of ATSKNF
- count 1 less BM for suppression
- count 1 less BM for assault resolution (minimum of 1)
- count 1 less BM for breaking
Results: this variation gave the Demiurg a lot of advantages against SM, Eldar and Guard, but was of little help with the Orks (or so it seemed) similar to #9.
Conclusion: the idea shows promise, but larger formations might break its back. This one is still in the mix.
Suggestion #7 ? Squat formations remove d6 Blast Markers during the Rally Phase.
Results: in these tests I ended up with results similar to #5. Smaller formations were free of BM every turn.
Conclusion: as per #5 this would make small formations nightmarish and give mixed results to large formations. It?s not workable IMO.
Armor Save variant:
Suggestion #8 ? The Squats are allowed to make Armor Saves against automatic kills during Assault Resolution and when shot at while Broken.
Results: given the decent armor saves the Demiurg enjoy this makes them even tougher giving them an ability similar to ATSKNF although it does require a saving throw. It allowed the Demiurg the chance to get back in the fight, but the formation doesn?t suffer the effects of losing assaults as intended by the rules, it watered down the victory for the opponent and preserves the strength of the Demiurg. SM, Eldar and especially IG and Orks suffered enhanced casualties due to surviving Demiurg.
Conclusions: Survivability does not really cover stubborn. This gives them toughness that is too similar to Marines. Given their overall numbers it minimizes assault results. I don?t think this will work for them.
Suggestion #9 "Each game turn, Squat/Demiurg formations ignore the first Blast Marker place on the formation, all other effects, such as Hold Actions, extra Barrage BM, losing Assault resolution and casualties are applied as normal."
Results: this is similar to #6 in terms of game effects. The key difference was that in a failed activation roll. They got no BM, which aided them in a few assaults.
Conclusion: this on comes off as it caused odd results. # 6 seems like a better way of representing the same mechanic.
Suggestion #10 An extra D6 when Regrouping (rolling 3d6). Either on a Hold-Regroup or Marshall action.
Results: really helps the odds and makes regrouping a decent choice for the Demiurg. Small formations are revitalized almost automatically. It works with stand off tactics. It was helpful in every game and gave everyone but Orks a heard time.
Conclusions: I don?t think this is a best case for the Demiurg, as it promotes static gameplay and the units most likely to use it, such as War Engines, would benefit unduly. Additionally the formation sizes rarely go above 10 units so even infantry could use this to minimize the game effects of BM.
Suggestion #11 With the Demiurg possibility of boosting the size of the unit, an upgrade to a second leader unit could come along with increasing the size of its formation. 2 leaders for an expensive 14 unit formation would not be over the top, would it?
Results: Did not test this, but I want to consider this. From Fredmans.
Suggestion #12 Here?s something else, again a part of ATSKNF. Squats take twice as many BM's to suppress/break. Just that bit of the rule. That makes them tenacious, whilst leaving them to die like dogs in a failed assault and not shift BM easily.
Results: Did not test this With formations averages of 10 it would take a lot of effort to break when and if they are in an assault they would be likely to start assault resolution with a -1, too much of a trade off IMO.
Suggestion #13 If you want a bit odder, twice as many just to break, so one BM, one suppression still, but entirely suppressed formations don't break as quickly as other armies.
Results: Did not test, formations that are fully suppressed with extra BM would be very hard to make combat effective.
Suggestion #14 One thought on the subject would be to allow the Squats to re-roll any dice that comes up as a "1" in the assault roll off. Thus allowing them to never suffer the negative of a pair of ones, but allowing a better chance for a pair of twos.
Results: Did not test. This bears more thought. It is similar odds wise to the Thurgrim rule, but only comes into play if a 1 shows up, I like it!
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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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Straight fight no changes.