I keep forgetting upgrades are in pairs of stands. So a pair of Thunderers for 50 points, a pair of Scourges for 75, and a pair of long fangs for 75 points.


Squats get 2 warrior, and 4 Thunderers for only 200 points. Long Fangs, get 3 range 45cm attacks each which are AP/AT, and they have ATSKNF, and have the 4+ save, so 75 points each is a little high for them, perhaps 4 for 250 points including 2 rhino transports instead of 4 plus transports for 300 points.

Standard Space Marine Devastators are 250 for 4 plus transport, and they get 1 less attack than SW Long Fangs.

After checking other lists, Sisters get their equivelent - Retributor who have 2 x range 30cm AP weapons per unit. They get their rhino transports for free, they have a FF of 3+, and CC of 6+, a 4+ save and faithful (6+invul save and fearless). 6 units for 250 points.

The Dark Reapers should get a 4+ save, and have their weapons 2 shots upgraded to AP5+/AT6+, and currently they are cheaper than Scourges at 225 points for 6. Less transport which cost 50 points per wave serpent. Swooping Hawks have a lot of specialist rules and fulfil the role of fast Jump infantry scout. Much like the Hellions are for the Dark Eldar, who also have only a FF/CC value.

Much of the Dark Eldar list have units that do not have ranged weapons, and can only FF/CC. Incubi, Wyches, Hellions, Reaver Jetbikes, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Wracks and Warp Beasts. Only the Kalabite warriors, and Scourges have ranged weapons, and these are only range 15cm/30cm.

If Scourges were too powerful, or under costed I would complain. I did ask Jim to make the Barges of Pleasure as replacements for the Raiders, instead of additions. I felt it made it too hard to break the formations when they had upto 3 x 3DC barges added to the other units.

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6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

Played at the EUK Birmingham Expo Tournament over the weekend using the EUK list:

Torture Class Cruiser
Executioner Landing Module
Kabal Coterie
Kabal Syndicate + Raiders
Kabal Syndicate + Raiders
Mandrakes
Mandrakes
Scourages
Scourages
Vessel of Pain
Vessel of Pain
Webway Portal

Total: 3000pts

I got a win, a loss, and two draws.

The main issues I had with the list were how unclear rules regarding blocking of the Webway are and how vague war engine transport rules are which get particularly fiddly when you take into account the special Eldar movement and consolidation rules.

The Coterie is an annoying, my Lord generally stayed in the Executioner as he's too valuable to risk in assault making the formation pretty worthless apart from providing a critical re-roll.

The strategy rating of 4 is very frustrating considering how many other common tournament armies share the same value. Not only was I loosing initiative a lot my space craft was beaten to turn 1 a lot.

The rest of the army performed admirably, but the Executioner could do with either better AA or a drop in points to 550pts, Dark Eldar are shredded by aircraft if you've none of your own.

This was using the EUK list but aspects are comparable.

I did a up a quick list just now using the EpicUK list for a 3000 point tournament force.

It combines the Scourges and mandrakes you seem to like, and adds in Reavers for speed and objective grabbing, and fast march moving to support engagements. 2 Vessels of Pain for added fire support.

There is a portable webway portal to allow some units to be deployed from it. There are 2 Razorwing formations for AA and Strafing. The mandatory Incubi, which since it must be the BTS, is costed higher than the rest of the list. The 2 Syndicates are there because they have to be, and to help in engagements.

Dark Eldar 3000 point list using EpicUK list
50 Points – Portable Webway Portal
Kabals – 1100
350 points – Coterie: Archon, 6Incubi, 4 Venoms, 1 Raider, Ravager
225 points – Flotilla: 4 Ravagers
275 points – Syndicate: Dracon, 6 Warriors, 2 Venoms, 2 Raiders
250 Points – Syndicate: Dracon, 6 Warriors, 3 Raiders
Partisans – 1450
250 Points – Reaver Gang: Succubus, 6 Reavers
250 Points – Reaver Gang: Succubus, 6 Reavers
250 Points – Heavy Barge: 1 Vessel of Pain
250 Points – Heavy Barge: 1 Vessel of Pain
250 Points – Scourges: 6 Scourges
200 Points – Mandrakes: 6 Mandrakes
Aircraft – 400
200 Points – Razorwings: 2 Razorwing Fighters
200 Points – Razorwings: 2 Razorwing Fighters


I was thinking that you could drop one of the reaver gangs, and replace it with talos who would deploy from the portable wraithgate. The extra 25 points can be spent on another 2 venoms to replace a raider in one of the syndicates. The venoms decrease the amount of units lost when a LV is lost, and increases the engagements FF attacks. It also increases the number of models, making the formation harder to break.

The force would be

Dark Eldar 3000 point list using EpicUK list
50 Points – Portable Webway Portal
Kabals – 1125
350 points – Coterie: Archon, 6 Incubi, 4 Venoms, 1 Raider, Ravager
225 points – Flotilla: 4 Ravagers
275 points – Syndicate: Dracon, 6 Warriors, 2 Venoms, 2 Raiders
275 Points – Syndicate: Dracon, 6 Warriors, 2 Venoms, 2 Raiders
Partisans – 1425
250 Points – Reaver Gang: Succubus, 6 Reavers
225 Points – Talos: 4 Talos
250 Points – Heavy Barge: 1 Vessel of Pain
250 Points – Heavy Barge: 1 Vessel of Pain
250 Points – Scourges: 6 Scourges
200 Points – Mandrakes: 6 Mandrakes
Aircraft – 400
200 Points – Razorwings: 2 Razorwing Fighters
200 Points – Razorwings: 2 Razorwing Fighters

Both these lists seem a little more flexible, have high activation counts, and can be useful in a good combination of shooting and engagements to weaken the enemy just before the DE assault/FF where they excel.

It is a pity the EpicUK list does not have a Tormentor Titan. They rock.

There was a discussion recently on war engine transports, particularly looking at barges of pleasure, slavebringers, and executioners. It seems that a war engine can drop off a formation, and pick them up as through it were a normal transport, if it is a dedicated transport, however you have to modify how you use the war engine if it is not a dedicated transport.

I can not seem to find it now, but hopefully someone else can find a link to it for you.

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6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

No it's great that the EpicUK list doesn't have a Titan. Because a titan goes totally against the theme of the list with fast hitting raiding parties coming out of the Warp.

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The Birmingham list wasn't competitive, the intention was that it would play quickly allowing me to see the rest of the show. I have nothing to deploy and don't need necessarily activate anything until turn 2. The Syndicates both start in the Webway, the Mandrakes teleport and everything else is mounted in the Executioner. Unfortunately, with most of the army being tied up in the Executioner and it's cargo it isn't a straight forward list to play with or against so the games were no quicker than normal!

My normal competitive list is:

Coterie + 2 Incubi + 6 Venom (Webway)
Syndicate + Dracon + Portal + Raiders (Webway)
Syndicate + Raiders (Webway)
Vessel of Pain
Mandrakes (Teleport)
Hellion (Webway)
Scourages (In Slavebringer)
Wyches + Succubus + Beasts (In Slavebringer)
Void Raven fighter bombers
Void Raven fighter bombers
Slavebringer
Slavebringer
Webway Portal

Can you talk me through the Hellions Rug, I've yet to have a crack with them. I'm typically running a fairly cookie cutter list (below) but would like to have a crack with something odder.

KABAL COTERIE [325]
4 Incubi, 1 Archon character, 2 Incubi

WEBWAY PORTAL [50]

PORTABLE WEBWAY PORTAL [50]

KABAL SYNDICATE [250]
6 Warriors, Dracon

KABAL SYNDICATE [250]
6 Warriors, Dracon

HEAVY BARGE [250]
1 Vessel of Pain

HEAVY BARGE [250]
1 Vessel of Pain

SCOURGES [250]
6 Scourges

MANDRAKES [200]
6 Mandrakes

SLAVEBRINGER [200]

SLAVEBRINGER [200]

RAZORWING FIGHTERS [200]
2 Razorwings

VOIDRAVEN BOMBERS [225]
2 Voidravens

WYCH CULT [300]
6 Wyches, 2 Warp Beasts, Succubus

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I've tried all the Partisans in that 200pt slot and they all work well in their own way. The Hellions stay in the Webway until turn 3 and then March taking/contesting as many objectives as necessary, scout and jump packs make them good at it! Unlike Reavers they can make use of cover.

They're ok in a Slavebringer as they can deploy 15cm from the flyer but can only pick off weak formations.

TBH our lists aren't all that different!

I have tried the Talos, and find they are OMG brilliant, but you need a minimum of 5, preferable the whole 8. Fearless, with CC MW, and a very short ranged Disrupt weapon. walker, RA 4+ save, 50 points each as upgrades. Deployment from the Portable wraithgate is best, and they can park on the enemy Blitz in cover.

Reaver jetbikes are a must, very fast. If you take hellions, or mandrakes, you may as well take Reavers. deployable from wraithgates, and the executioner. They have a 4+ save, good CC, ok FF, and can jump over cover as they triple move 120 cm to support an assault, and they are infantry which limits which weapons can fire at them.

I always take the Heavy Barge, and prefer to take Ravagers rather than Kalabite warriors and their transports. They die just as quickly as the Syndicates, but put out far more fire power. In the Epic EA list they can take Dracons, and have up to 6 in a formation.

I love the Tormentor. Its the only ground based AA unit in the DE list for Epic EA, and seems to fit the more wealthier DE Archon/lord raiding lists well. I use it as a shield to hide my broken formations near if the enemy has a strong air force.

The Incubi have performed well, as have the Wyches for me. I tend to mount them on Barges of Pleasure, or add venoms to the raiders to reduce casualties overall, and make the formation harder to break.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

I'm considering making the Dark Eldar my next army and wanted to know the following:

1. How close is the developmental list to being finalised? I don't think it will make a big different to my troop choices but would be good to know regardless.

2. This is subjective, but is this list fun to play? I'm looking for a fast moving, raiding, glass cannon type of force.

3. Mandrakes seem to be underutilised, they seem ideal for a 3rd round blitz run. Am I missing something?

Thanks

List is ready to go, we just need more reports to go for the full change.

I enjoy the list when played fast and sharp so give it a go.

I tend to end up using them early to hit exposed enemy units

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Hiya JJMm,
The list is close we just need a few more batreps from different playing groups. But i would also like to have the tormentor and the executioner tested a little more.

I live playing the dark eldar. I find them very challenging to play with and i think most of my opponents have found them fun and challenging to.play against... except when my heavy barges decide to roll hot and just blast everything!

I personally love mandrakes and combine them with a unit of scourges to do a one two combo on an isolated unit it alpha strike arty. I have found them to be useful enough as a scout screen too. I find both the mandrakes and the scourges to be completely unreliable with sone games getting formation or three match and other times... wanting to hit them with a hammer (on a side note, ive actually seen this occur to a poor performing unit of roman legionaries... weirdest thing ever).

I hope you jump on board! Don has some amazing figs at onslaught that should tempt you also!

Cheers
Jim

Thanks for the input, the Onslaught figs are what made me consider this army in the first place.

Hopefully the new command pack will be out from Onslaught soon. I have bases with the command model just waiting to be inserted before I start painting the bases.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

Jimbo.

Just wanted to post up a bit of a thought ive been having after running dark eldar for few games now.

Ive been losing alot of games lately, not because of the strength of the army but my sloppy playing. But 1 thing that has been hurting hard in games is failing to activate aircraft. The slave bringer is already good with the shield and -1 to hit. But having so many LVs and low armoured troops on the ground it hurts hard. Just wondering with the lack of ground AA would it be too good to maybe have +1 to intercept or cap? Happy if its going to be to good. I could be just having a unlucky run with them.

As for the the titan. Have people been testing it out much? Im finding it hard to find people happy to play against it.

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I find that if you use just 1 titan, and not go over board with the VoPs and heavy barges, then it is able to be dealt with. The shields do not regenerate, and IC weapons do not get the -1. it is almost like facing off against a pair of warhounds, except that it does not break until it gets 4 BM, where killing off a single warhound could break the remaining unit most of the time.

If enemy concentrate fire on it, then it is gone in 1 or 2 rounds of fire, and it is usually the BTS. Its close combat weapons are nasty though - if it gets into engagement/CC. EA +2 TK D3 can be a nasty close combat weapon. The ground based AA zone provided by the Tormentor is also good place to hide the broken LV and infantry formations that everyone seems to kill off to reduce your activations and fast formations that can take objectives in the last turn.

I generally do not have too many problems getting my aircraft activated, unless they had BM from a previous turn. They are one of the few aircraft that has a 4+ save, and can jink if needed.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.