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Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3

 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 7:39 am 
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What are the rules for demi-god? Emperor and constantine Valdor have this rule it is not included pdf rules decsriptions.

Also Can I take the Emperor, Constantine Valdor and have a Tribune leading one of my Custodes formation? They all have Supreme Commander. The list does not say anything to limit me doing this, even though common sense would be that you can only take 1 supreme commander.

Checking out the core rules from the Tournament pack, It does not seem to limit the number of Supreme commanders you can have. It says that unless stated specifically in a rule, even when broken you can still use the special abilities of a supreme commander, and each supreme commander gives the army a free re-roll per turn, as well as having the leader and commander skills. This seems a bit OP to me. as you could have 3 or more re-rolls each turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:16 am 
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Thanks for your feedback.

We will provide an updated version shortly.

And I will try to put a string that specifies that you can only have one supreme commander


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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:21 am 
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Thanks that shouid clarify things

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:35 am 
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I put here the update

I look forward to your feedback. We also took inspiration from the work done by the EpicAU group

Best Regards


Attachments:
Talons of The Emperor 4.3.xlsx - Data Sheet.pdf [93.24 KiB]
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Talons of The Emperor 4.3.xlsx - Army Composition.pdf [67.67 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:43 am 
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Okay I see a few changes especially the Supreme command change where although you could take multiple supreme commanders, only one can is allowed to give you a re-roll.

I noticed the "An army of Lone Warriors" section has been removed from the list, replaced by the "Fleshbane" rule. with many of the vehicles being armed with Archnus heavy blaze cannons that use the -1 to your armour save weapon (INF and LV only).

I still do not see where the Demi-God rule is explained. Are you basing this rule with info from the 30K heresy rules, if so maybe those rules will be there so you can transfer them over.

Also The emperor and Constantine Valdor are listed as CH not INF or WE. They have their own save, CC, FF values so I thought they should be INF or WE something like the BloodThirster is. Are they attached to a base of Custodes, or do they have their own base? Are they a separate formation on their own/ or can they lead a formation? How are they treated? It is still not clear to me, especially with their stats line as it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:52 am 
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Found the demi-god rule in the heresy era rules:

Demi-God. A Demi-God unit has three wounds similar to a WE, however, a Demi-God wound capacity has a number of differences to that of a WE. A Demi-God unit must maintain a 5cm unit coherency with its formation unless it possesses the Scout special rule. A Demi-God unit can be allocated hits up to its starting wound capacity. A Demi-God unit requires two blast markers to be considered suppressed or broken. A Demi-God that loses a damage point does not incur a blast marker, however, when a Demi-God’s wounds are reduced to zero, the Demi-God unit is destroyed and all friendly formation within 30cm receive two blast markers. A Demi-God unit does not suffer critical hits when it loses a wound and cannot barge other units like a WE. A Demi-God does not roll a number of hit dice equal to its wounds like a WE and cannot elect to use its FF or CC value like a WE. A Demi-God unit counts as the same unit type as their retinue for transport capacity purposes.

Since I could not find stats for the emperor or Valdor in the Heresy list, I would classify them as CH, remove the save, CC and FF values. They can then be added to Custodes formations as their commander instead of a Tribune, Velexia, or Shield Captain. Then add in their special rules. That would make things easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 6:15 pm 
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Thx for the feedback.

I have put now the rule demi-god at the end of the "data sheet"

In my idea Valdor and The Emperor of the Mankind are single unity.

In the army you have Valdor with 3 Custodes Hetaerons bases, so in total 4 bases

And the Emperor with 3 bases of 3 Custodes Aquilon Terminator bases, so in total 4 bases

Ill put here the new update

Thx for your help


Attachments:
Talons of The Emperor 4.4.xlsx - Data Sheet.pdf [93.99 KiB]
Downloaded 51 times
Talons of The Emperor 4.4.xlsx - Army Composition.pdf [67.67 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 3:57 am 
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2 Things, I think might need fixing.

Constantine Valdos bodyguard retinue have a better FF than him. He and his stand of warriors have FF4+, while the other 3 stands Hetaerons have a FF of 3+.

The Oblivion Knight Centura who leads the Sisters of Silence, increases the CC value of the stand she is attached to. In this case I would like to recommend a change. Have it so she replaces a stand in the sisters formation, and change her stats so she is an INF with all the Save, CC and FF values. included rather than a CH upgrade.

Other than that, there seem to be nothing that does not make sense.

Are you keeping the rule "an army of lone warriors" out of the list still?

Just want to be sure the change was intended, not accidental.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:32 am 
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Yes i decided to eliminate the rule "Army of Lone Warrior" to make the army with less complicated or with too much advantages.

Already fixed Valdr FF in 3+

the choice of the Oblivion Knight Centura was also wanted to make sense of that MW attack on the CH. But one could easily elminate the 4+ close combat skill. Waiting for a your feedback about thins


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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:11 am 
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Either would suit, as long as it is congruant throughout the formation. Either change it to an INF or keep it a CH and remove the 4+CC.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:22 am 
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I noted you have increased the size of the core formations to from 4 to 6. This will have to be play tested to see if it is balanced, or too powerful. Especially as they are cheaper than Space Marines withtheir ATSKNF but not counting the free rhinos.

Yes they are only useful in engagements, but can teleport, and get fast-ish skimmer transports (which do cost a bit, but have good weapons). Their invul save helps a little. A little hard to tell if they are too much, or just right.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:11 pm 
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Quote:
"Yes they are only useful in engagements, but can teleport, and get fast-ish skimmer transports (which do cost a bit, but have good weapons). Their invul save helps a little. A little hard to tell if they are too much, or just right."


vehicles can no longer teleport. In an old draft they could

Quote:
I noted you have increased the size of the core formations to from 4 to 6.


Yes, I increased the unit number to give the unit some impact considering that they don't have any shooting weapons

here fixed PDF


Attachments:
Talons of The Emperor 4.4.xlsx - Data Sheet.pdf [93.98 KiB]
Downloaded 53 times
Talons of The Emperor 4.4.xlsx - Army Composition.pdf [67.67 KiB]
Downloaded 58 times
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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:16 pm 
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Looks like an interesting list. The emporer is crazy strong. The 3+ reinforced is crazy powerful. Just took a quick glance at this list. It will dominate anything I suspect. Looking forward to a bat rep though.

The sagitarium.. at 250pts have 18 attacks at FF+3. Thats nutz nothing compairs to that.

The bikes too are straight up godly.

I don't mean to be negative. I just think that the power in this is insanely over the top and it won't go anywhere as a result.

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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:17 pm 
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Hi Atension, thx fior the feedback about the amry list.

If you have some idea to fix these units it will a huge help,

What are yours idea to fix:

- Emeperor
- Bikes
- Sagittarium

I hope in these holiday to do another game a doing a battle rep with some photo.

Best regards


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 Post subject: Re: Talons of the Emperor - Experimental List V2.3
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:43 pm 
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Looked into this list a little more deeply. I still think the sagittarium are OP but when actually getting into the meat of making a list. It builds similar to the Deathguard. Yeah the formations are powerful but the lists huge draw back is cost. There are no cheap units. Building a 3000pt rounded list you'll struggle to get more than 8 activations which is a big draw back.

No recommendations for changes as of yet. Want to see how this performs first.

If thats the balance mechanism cool, looking forward to how this comes together. Considering building an Custodes army but mostly as a project not so much to play. Will be a while before I get to it though. Happy to try a gave via TTS though.

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