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International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marines 2K

 Post subject: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marines 2K
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:54 pm 
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I recently fought my first battle on the internet against my brother who lives in Australia. I hosted the battle by setting up the board & minis and then setting up the camera which I constantly moved around the table for offering different viewpoints as we played. Because we were focussed on making sure we could play, I didn't bother taking pics as normally would be the case.

The forces:

Land Raider Company: 700 points
Warhounds, each armed with an Inferno Gun and Turbo Laser Destructor. 500 points
Assault Detachment: 250 points
Deathwing Terminator Detachment: 350 points
Land Speeder Squadron: 200 points

v

Goff Mob: 650 points
Goff Gutrippa Sqaudron: 100 points
Great Gargant w/Ork Gargant (with Gutbuster ball ammo, Gatling Cannon, Supa Lifta Droppa, Gork Head, 2 Battlecannon): 750 points
Kult of Speed: 400 points
Skullhamma: 100 points

35VPs is required for the win.

Playing via Skype: This actually wasn't as bad as we had feared. The connection held up and my brother was able to understand what was going on through the limited video cam available. I had taken a couple of overview pics of the battlefield to help familiarise him with the battlefield before we started. Soundwise it was even better as we were both able to hear one another clearly - almost as if he was in the same room even though he was on the other side of the world!

My brother doesn't have any dice (hard to imagine, I know) out there so had downloaded a dice rolling app which allows him to roll as many D6 (or D10s, D12, etc) at once as he decided. We trust each other not to cheat, but did offer to let the other see the roll if we wanted to verify the result. He used a pen & paper to draw a rough copy of the battlefield and also to note down units & orders which meant I could rumble him if I thought there was any skullduggery afoot (not that I thought there was)!

The game took us about 4 hours but it is worth mentioning that the two of us also had meals at this time - and that I'm not used to playing Orks so there was a fair amount of reference checking. I can imagine Marine v Eldar battles taking half the time.
It isn't ideal but is more doable than we maybe first thought. I can imagine it being a lot more difficult for larger battles so we are probably going to keep it to battles for 2 - 3 K at the moment.


Net Epic Evolution: My brother seemed to pick up the rules without too many problems. His one issue was that he wanted to reserve fire for one unit after close combat was resolved (in order that he could mop up the survivors) but this is not permitted in NEE and I can't see any way to change this without compromising the rules. He seemed to like that the new system increases tactical choices. We used standard damage tables and avoided plasma generation for the Warhounds (sorry DS & Primarch - it's a definite for next time); the Titans & Gargant were treated as being on charge and first fire orders like Praetorians.

Turn 1: Goff Mob (which had no transports) moved into woods at the back of the board, headed for an objective. I thought they were safe. I was wrong. The Marine assault detachment headed for the same objective and was able to take it and for 4 stands to engage my Boyz in close combat. The Goff Nobs move through the same wood to the edge where they have perfect position to pick off all 3 of the Assault Squads now exposed Rhinos. Marine player counters by charging a Warhound across the board and frying about 4 Boyz and 2 Nobs, 2 nearby Gutrippas with a combination of an Inferno Gun & Turbo-Laser destructors. Being able to make Warhounds charge & ff makes that Inferno gun absolutely lethal against troop-heavy forces (remember that with the new +1 to FF, +1 to hit units on FF that the accuracy of the weapon is much improved also). It would have been worse had those assault troops not engaged the Boyz in cc; i.e. there would have been 15 Boyz stands at the mercy of that weapon!
All over the board Marines swarmed towards objectives. My Skullhamma ws picked off before the end of the turn after coming under heavy Land Raider fire. It was up to my Gargant to take the objective that the Skullhamma was intended to hold, destroying a few Land Raiders as well. War Buggies take another one, but were jumped by the Land Speeder squadron, who in turn were jumped by the other War Buggy squadron. In close combat between the buggies and the Land Speeders, pretty much 1 Buggy died then the Speeder was done in by the secondary attacker. Except the one nearest the objective - he managed to destroy both Buggies and take the objective! Nooooo! Ork Nobz warbikes are able to get into a position to attack some of the Land Raiders and picked off a couple of them.
Once the dust settled, my Orks had only claimed a single solitary objective and broken the Land Speeders. The Marines meanwhile had taken a huge 6 objectives, while 1 remained unclaimed. Worse still, the Kult of Speed was only 3 away from breaking, while the Goffs were 2 away! Had those assault stands not got involved, the game may have already been over!

Marines: 30 VPs
Orks: 7 VPs

Turn 2:
Orks win initiative and the Boyz in the wood charge the Assault Marines (to take cover from the damn inferno gun as much as anything). Land Raiders decimate my Nobz Warbikes - but luck is on my side with Morale Checks as both sets of Buggies roll over 4. My Goff Nobz try to put one of the Warhounds out of commission but despite 3 of 5 hits getting through, the only thing that happens is that the f'ing Inferno gun is put out of commission. War Buggies shoot the remaining Land Speeder down, taking (if they can survive to the end of the turn) an objective. The other squadron move on to take the unclaimed objective. The Marines are stretched across the board which means they have little to fire at, moping up the last Gutrippa and picking off some more Goff Nobz. The Goffs are broken, but I manage to roll a 4 which means the Boyz stand strong - and crucially - will not have their CAF impaired for going on Fall Back orders. The Gargant makes the Imperials pay by trashing several Land Raiders and manages to break the company!
The close combat in the woods is a mixed affair; the Assault troops get the better rolls but are still broken by the Boyz. One last desperate close assault will determine who holds an objective and whether the battle is won or continues for another turn... Marines win the melee and the match!
At the end of the turn, the Orks now had three objectives and had broken the Land Raider Company, the Assault Detachment and the Land Speeders from turn 1. The Marines had taken five objectives and broken the Goffs and the Kult of Speed.
Marines: 38 VPs
Orks: 28 VPs

Conclusion: I couldn't see what I could have done differently, and my strategy to deploy across 2/3 of the board and sacrifice an objective was sound; there simply weren't enough Ork units to play across a wider front. I was desperate to try out my nice and newly painted Gargant, but in future would settle for a Slasha; as Great as the Gargant is, 750 points is a huge chunk out of a 2,000 point force. I took some consolation from the fact that turn 2 went much better than the first, and that had the evenly matched close assault went differently, we would both have been on 33 VPs a piece.
From the Marine perspective, the Warhounds really could have been left to deal with the Goff mob while the assault squad supported the Land Speeders. Had that one change been made it could have been an absolute trouncing for the Orks with the game over at the end of turn 1.
My suspicions are that the Orks are always going to get battered on Turn 1 but become much more powerful in Turn 2 when they are in range of enemy units and able to make good use of their larger activations which enemy forces really should fear. it will be interesting to see how they fare in a 5k battle soon...

So, now that we know that NetEpic can be played to a reasonable standard over the net (though it will never be the same as good old-fashioned face to face play), there's no excuse not to try out NetEpic Evolution. Who's next for a game? :)

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Last edited by The Bissler on Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Hi!

Well, I am glad this worked, since I would like to try it. It may have to wait to closer around the holidays when I have free time though.

How did you deal with the time difference? UK to Australia is pretty extreme!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:05 pm 
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I'm just hardcore that way. Watch this space, extreme Net Epic may become a new online phenomenon! :D

I had to start in the morning is the proper answer!

When are the holidays in the U.S.? Is that Xmas* you mean?

*I like to keep Christ out of our annual festival of comsumerism. >:D

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Last edited by The Bissler on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:59 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
I'm just hardcore that way. Watch this space, extreme Net Epic may become a new online phenomenon! :D

I had to start in the morning is the proper answer!

When are the holidays in the U.S.? Is that Xmas* you mean?

*I like to keep Christ out of our annual festival of comsumerism.


Hi!

Yes, around then. Also possibly before. It's somewhat difficult for me to predict a suitable lull at work to schedule something like this, especially when time zones are taken into account.

Can you describe the technical aspect of all this? Number of cameras, transfer speeds, lags, etc?

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:35 pm 
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I can't really describe the technical aspect of any of this! Technology isn't my strongpoint! I haven't the foggiest about the transfer speeds. Lag-wise we were able to have a normal conversation. If I had to guess, I'd say about half a second lag which I don't regard as being that bad considering we were speaking to each other from opposite sides of the globe.

It was a one camera job - my old Xbox camera specifically. My brother said it was a bit blurry at times but we muddled through and he still won! Because it is such a small camera, I was able to easily move it around the board and best of all was often able to place it to provide near to proper POV for the miniatures.

If you want to guage how this looks, please pm me your Skype contact details and I can show you... Just don't expect Hi-Def quality!


Attachments:
File comment: This little piece of crap enabled us to play Epic simultaneously in Scotland and Wolf Creek land!
Xbox cam.jpg
Xbox cam.jpg [ 5.14 KiB | Viewed 7451 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Holy cow, UK to Australia! What's the time difference? I could see doing a UK - CT game where the time difference is five hours, but UK - Oz? I commend your dedication to NetEpic!

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Dwarf Supreme wrote:
Holy cow, UK to Australia! What's the time difference? I could see doing a UK - CT game where the time difference is five hours, but UK - Oz? I commend your dedication to NetEpic!


Thank you kind sir - you know me, anything for the cause! :D

It was Western Australia so I was 7 hours behind them. Not easy, but do-able.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:11 am 
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The Bissler wrote:
Dwarf Supreme wrote:
Holy cow, UK to Australia! What's the time difference? I could see doing a UK - CT game where the time difference is five hours, but UK - Oz? I commend your dedication to NetEpic!


Thank you kind sir - you know me, anything for the cause! :D

It was Western Australia so I was 7 hours behind them. Not easy, but do-able.


Hi!

Just 7? I'm 7 hours behind you. That should make a game between us doable. ;)

I'm wondering how a multiple camera setup would work with multiple concurrent views.

We need to get together and plan this!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:18 am 
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Given the dispersed nature of all of us, figuring out the best way of doing this could have huge benefits.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:22 am 
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ForgottenLore wrote:
Given the dispersed nature of all of us, figuring out the best way of doing this could have huge benefits.


Hi!

I agree. Video conferencing software and other such things are now widely available. I'm going to try to get some research on this to see what is the limit of what can be done.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:41 am 
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It's probably fairly limited in who here can do it, but people with apple I-devices could use FaceTime pretty easily.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:49 am 
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primarch wrote:
Just 7? I'm 7 hours behind you.


We have clocks going back (an hour) on the 27th October. My brain hurts at trying to understand what this means, but I think I'm right in suggesting it moves us an hour closer to the U.S. thereby making the prospect even more viable. I would be thrilled to play against the legendary Primarch - or any other forum members for that matter! :)

ForgottenLore wrote:
Given the dispersed nature of all of us, figuring out the best way of doing this could have huge benefits.


Absolutely. If you're anything like me, you'd probably play the game a lot more than you do, and are probably limited in doing so because finding people to play against regularly isn't always easy. This would make arranging a game much easier. Getting to meet other forum members is a big plus also. I'm probably ruining a lot of illusions here - a bit like that interfering mutt Toto in the Wizard of Oz - but unlike my online avatar, I don't actually have lumps on my head!

Another bonus is that if you aren't hosting a game, you wouldn't have any tidying up to do! I could well imagine some people kicking back on their sofa with a beer while directing the host as to how they want their forces moved! But to be fair, I would expect players to take turns at hosting so as to share the benefits/drawbacks of doing so! ;D

This would hopefully open up opportunities for campaign play. For me, campaigns are the hardest project to embark on in Epic as they demand a lot of time and attention from players. Only the most hardy/foolhardy players are likely to want to play campaigns, probably only the kind of people that post here on the forum. I'd like to think this may be achievable as a long-term goal, but I don't want to get ahead of myself... one step at a time!

primarch wrote:
I agree. Video conferencing software and other such things are now widely available. I'm going to try to get some research on this to see what is the limit of what can be done.


I look forward to your findings!

ForgottenLore wrote:
It's probably fairly limited in who here can do it, but people with apple I-devices could use FaceTime pretty easily.


Yep, if I had an I-thingy this is what we would have used. It was only because I don't that we used Skype.

Great to see such enthusiasm for this idea! :)

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:09 am 
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Out of interest, has anyone ever heard of anyone trying this before? I'm wondering if it is a world first...

...For Epic, I mean. I'm sure someone will have done the same with other games in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:59 pm 
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I have heard of a lot of efforts to do remote role playing, but never remote physical miniatures games.

I techie friend of mine suggested it once a while ago, but we never explored it because the tech wasn't really ready.

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 Post subject: Re: International Net Epic Evolution Playtest: Orks v Marine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:44 pm 
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I can imagine roleplaying being a doddle as there is much less emphasis on miniature play; in fact there have been GM/DMs whose games I have participated in that do not use any miniatures at all.

I can imagine playing Space Hulk would be the easiest of the tabletop games to play in this manner, mainly because of the smaller scale of play and also LOS issues are pretty obvious.

Anyway, while playing this way wasn't ideal, it was still fun! I'll be interested to see if anyone else tries giving this a go!

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