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Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1

 Post subject: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:20 am 
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Hi All,

Well we manage game of epic…. It was 4000 point per side and it was between Codex Astartes and Gryphonne IV Skitarii Legion 2.1…

Link to AAR…

http://pfe100.blogspot.com/2018/10/code ... ne-iv.html

23/10/18:- corrected results....since skitari, didn't get BTS..

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I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..


Last edited by PFE200 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Thanks for the report. Tough match for the Skittari facing all that air engagement and teleport formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Thanks for the report, Greg! I do like the idea of adding the point boost partly to the Quake cannons. They aren't generally all that performant on their own, but they are rarely taken anyway outside of the CLP combo.


TBH I'm not sure about the points bump for the Majoris. What I've seen in the past is that the Majoris really doesn't perform all that well and most lists don't take it. I think it's seen a bit of a spike in popularity because we capped the Minorus support missiles and this effectively nets you a few more. 1+ initiative is interesting and might be looked into as it does make them more likely to have an impact.


What I definitely think we need to look into is changing the Hellfire missies. They are one of the most expensive options a Majoris can take, and can put out 12bm MW templates or parse things out at 4bp a turn. E40k had them as Vortex missies, which would make this even worse by giving them TK, IC, and +1bp per missile. My initial thoughts were to drop the individual missiles on the stats and give it a fixed single shot BP to represent all of the missiles. I'm also wondering if we might give it slow firing. Did you have any thoughts on changes?

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:04 am 
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Great to see some others testing out our CLP+2QC concerns.

There did not seem very much terrain for the infantry heavy Skitarii formations to hide in.
There were only 9 terrain pieces on the table - as far as I could see - although some of them
were pretty big. Did all of the red bases around the pipes offer a -1 to hit cover bonus?
And was the hill otherwise an open space? How do you think it compares with our rule of
thumb of 12 pieces for a 180 cm by 120 cm table?

The four thunderhawks seem an ideal BM delivery system (75 cm range and Init +1) to a
low activation, initiative 2+ army. Placing BMs to reduce activation rolls to 3+ will be a much
more conscious strategy for me the next time I face the Skitarii.

Using war engines with fixed arcs of fire as overwatch formations against teleporting
(or highly mobile) enemy certainly looks challenging.

I did not understand your comment about three BTS formations on the table. Surely the
Supreme Commander's formation at 425 points was more than the three Terminators at 400 each?

My initial reading felt like activation luck was running strongly against the Skitarii Commander.
So I did a count and looked like 5 out of 10 activation failures on the first turn. Ouch. Including
the two long range formations you mentioned. But on Turn 2 there were no activation failures
after the Supreme Commander reroll. And only one fail on Turn 3. So overall 7 fails and
19 passes, about expected for an Init 2+ army carrying Blast Markers?

In your discussion did you think any changes in tactics, as opposed to changes with the army
lists, might have helped the Skitarii? Some questions included:
Pushing at least some Minoris formations froward to avoided They Shall Not Pass.
And provide some forward AA cover.
Using an infantry formation as an overwatch screen behind the rear formations.
Having the Blitz away from the corner to help garrison infantry forward into cover.

All wonderful hindsight ideas so just asking for comment really, and definitely NOT offering critique.
In light of your game I am thinking corner deployment might be better next time I face Skitarii. Rather
harder to get onto their flanks with only ground forces though so I went conventional last game.

Good to see you getting in games. And keeping up the record reporting rate.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:18 am 
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Hi all,
Sorry long post..
atension wrote:
Thanks for the report. Tough match for the Skittari facing all that air engagement and teleport formations.

Thanks for reading and it was..
Andrew_NZ wrote:
Great to see some others testing out our CLP+2QC concerns. .

No problem....it need to be tested and the more groups that test the better..
Andrew_NZ wrote:
There did not seem very much terrain for the infantry heavy Skitarii formations to hide in . There were only 9 terrain pieces on the table - as far as I could see - although some of them
were pretty big. Did all of the red bases around the pipes offer a -1 to hit cover bonus?
And was the hill otherwise an open space? How do you think it compares with our rule of
thumb of 12 pieces for a 180 cm by 120 cm table? .

There was 9 total but I counted a couple as two, due to size and yes we count the red bases around as -1 to hit and gives cover save….I count hills as open space….if there was terrain piece on the hill, then the base of that piece was start of new terrain type....if that make cents….We have always tried to aim for 12 pieces on the table, since that wants in the rule basically ask for, for tournaments….I do know times we have more, but we do try and aim for 12..
Andrew_NZ wrote:
The four thunderhawks seem an ideal BM delivery system (75 cm range and Init +1) to a low activation, initiative 2+ army. Placing BMs to reduce activation rolls to 3+ will be a much
more conscious strategy for me the next time I face the Skitarii. .

Thank Dan from the UK for that one.. ..That’s why the Thunderhawk are now in the 1/3 section…
Andrew_NZ wrote:
Using war engines with fixed arcs of fire as over watch formations against teleporting (or highly mobile) enemy certainly looks challenging. .

Yeah it is and once they get pass that arch of fire…you are toasts…He still had stuff to shoot but it was stuff that less power full, like Heavy bolter s (they don’t have arch)
Andrew_NZ wrote:
I did not understand your comment about three BTS formations on the table. Surely the Supreme Commander's formation at 425 points was more than the three Terminators at 400 each?.

It’s a running joke first off, but you did spot a mistake, so the poor Skitarii commander didn’t get BTS. Are well it proves I’m human and not a @#$%^ Robot…so were in the back ground, he asked for rematch, just now…
Andrew_NZ wrote:
My initial reading felt like activation luck was running strongly against the Skitarii Commander.So I did a count and looked like 5 out of 10 activation failures on the first turn. Ouch. Includingthe two long range formations you mentioned. But on Turn 2 there were no activation failures
after the Supreme Commander reroll. And only one fail on Turn 3. So overall 7 fails and
19 passes, about expected for an Init 2+ army carrying Blast Markers? .

Now that put it that way it doesn’t look to bad, but I still think it affected the game somehow….
Andrew_NZ wrote:
In your discussion did you think any changes in tactics, as opposed to changes with the army lists, might have helped the Skitarii? Some questions included:
Pushing at least some Minoris formations froward to avoided They Shall Not Pass.
And provide some forward AA cover. Using an infantry formation as an overwatch screen behind the rear formations. Having the Blitz away from the corner to help garrison infantry forward into cover. .

Some of this gets discussed on the day and over the next week… I would like to swap sides and play another game…keeping the same table as such….But we will see want happens..
Andrew_NZ wrote:
All wonderful hindsight ideas so just asking for comment really, and definitely NOT offering critique. In light of your game I am thinking corner deployment might be better next time I face Skitarii. Rather harder to get onto their flanks with only ground forces though so I went conventional last game. .

No problems...Look please try the corner deployment, I would love see how your games go using it..
Andrew_NZ wrote:
Good to see you getting in games. And keeping up the record reporting rate.

Thank you, yeah I have been quite for long while games wise, 45% been health cause, so as of today it been 9 weeks since having heart surgery and thing s are really looking up health wise for once..
Vaaish wrote:
Thanks for the report, Greg! I do like the idea of adding the point boost partly to the Quake cannons. They aren't generally all that performant on their own, but they are rarely taken anyway outside of the CLP combo.

No problem….Yeah, it was another way of increase points cost, without over killing the CLP option….I still think the apoloc missile barrage will suffer, but most will take the QC option first any ways..
Vaaish wrote:
TBH I'm not sure about the points bump for the Majoris. What I've seen in the past is that the Majoris really doesn't perform all that well and most lists don't take it. I think it's seen a bit of a spike in popularity because we capped the Minorus support missiles and this effectively nets you a few more. 1+ initiative is interesting and might be looked into as it does make them more likely to have an impact.

I add the points cost, since I gather if the formation went to a 1+ initiative, then there may be a boost….Testing can be done without the points increase and if testing shows its needed then it can be added..
Vaaish wrote:
What I definitely think we need to look into is changing the Hellfire missies. They are one of the most expensive options a Majoris can take, and can put out 12bm MW templates or parse things out at 4bp a turn. E40k had them as Vortex missies, which would make this even worse by giving them TK, IC, and +1bp per missile. My initial thoughts were to drop the individual missiles on the stats and give it a fixed single shot BP to represent all of the missiles. I'm also wondering if we might give it slow firing. Did you have any thoughts on changes?

Yeah…. I look and thought the following, but didn’t add it to report, since they may be too far left..
1) Add slow firing and using the large template….set it to 4 BP…Yep bloody scary…
2) Add slow firing and allow it use any of the support missile warheads, but can only fire one or two missile a turn..….although this could be interesting, but I gather most would take the death strike anyway..
I’m sure there other options, like ones you mention above..

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Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:40 pm 
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Thanks for report! Probably ideal matchup vs Skitarri I think, was also going to give this a try.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes and Skitarii Legion 2.1
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:27 am 
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I'll post this here too but this is what I'm leaning toward for the next update:

Carapace Landing Pad to 50 points
Quake Cannons +25 points to 100 points.
Support Missile +50 points to 100 points
Avengers gain +1 Lascannon per unit.
Ordinatus Golgotha (hellfire missiles) stats replaced with Orbital Bombardment, 4bp MW, Slow Firing. Cost increases +50 points to 200 points.

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