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4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1

 Post subject: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:08 am 
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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:16 am 
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Thanks for the report!

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Thanks for the report! How did you feel the skitarii with the point reductions?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
Thanks for the report! How did you feel the skitarii with the point reductions?


I query the fearless on everything, seems strange.

This seemed roughly ok.
3 Ordinatus Minorus (Gattling Blasters, 6 x AP4+/AT4+) [425]

I think this is far too cheap, compared to IG artillery it is far more resilient plus better firepower with the MW.
3 Ordinatus Minorus (1 Carapace Landing Pad, 2 Quake Cannons, 3BP, MW) [500]

I wonder if these are a tad overpowered.
2 Ordinatus Minorus (Plasma Destructors, 5 x MW2+, Slow Fire) [400]

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Markconz wrote:
I think this is far too cheap, compared to IG artillery it is far more resilient plus better firepower with the MW.
3 Ordinatus Minorus (1 Carapace Landing Pad, 2 Quake Cannons, 3BP, MW) [500]

I wonder if these are a tad overpowered.
2 Ordinatus Minorus (Plasma Destructors, 5 x MW2+, Slow Fire) [400]


So checking the UK list, they have the same size and points cost, although if you upgrade weapons pay a small points cost….Their weapons are different…. They don’t have the CLP so no ID Fire ….

I would add a points cost to the Carapace Landing Pad, say 50 points….worth looking at, since that would make it about 550 for the formation that you talking above..

The second one you mention is the same cost in the UK list and only different i can see at quick glance is the Plasma Destructors are 1 less shot in the UK list.....(sorry correction, would cost 50 points more since you pay 25 pts each for the upgrade.)

just my 2 cents worth..

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Last edited by PFE200 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Thanks! Fearless was added in line with the euk stats for ordinatus to make them less squshy. It should only be that, secutors, and praetorians.

For the Arty, how did you play the clp? If you treated it like the old clp and used it to get indirect, then yes it is off. That was why we reduced the minorus coy to 2 units. It shouldn't be too bad under the new clp rules. I'll keep an eye on it and see how things go in the future. We may add a cost to the clp or drop the formation to two units again.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:27 am 
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4 shots was what came to my mind as being more reasonable for the PD, so interesting the UK has it at that and more expensive. Sounds more appropriate.

Not sure what you mean how did you play the CLP? Played as it is listed in 2.1 with indirect, so what should it be?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:36 am 
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Markconz wrote:
so interesting the UK has it at that and more expensive. Sounds more appropriate.


Not my day for reading shit..so in the UK 2 Ordinatus Minorus is 300 and two weapon upgrades brings it to 350, so Skitarri 2.1.. it 50 points more...400.... sorry about that chief.. :-[

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:38 am 
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Markconz wrote:
Not sure what you mean how did you play the CLP? Played as it is listed in 2.1 with indirect, so what should it be?


"bp weapons in the same formation do not need lof if the formation is on sustained fire, advance or double actions."

In particular, you don't get double range, so you can't shoot from one deployment zone into the other...


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:06 am 
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Oh ok but when it's got 90cm range already that is hardly a sufficient balancing tweak I think. It's not like most armies can just remain in their deployment zone.

Not sure what is meant by this in relation to balance Vaaish?
"That was why we reduced the minorus coy to 2 units"

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:28 am 
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Probably because there is a big difference between 3 and 6BPs, as with two Ordinatus CLP Ind Fiire is not much of a concern compared with the 3 Ordinatus 6BPs. I agree with you that maybe it is nor much as a deterrent as they can still advance plus a good deployment if they need the extra range but first it still forces to change plans and act in a precise and more predictable way and second, let's see what some testing reveals as the change is still big.

In this regard i prefer to increase the points on the CLP to 50 or even to 75 points rather than taking out the third Ordinatus again, even though we would need to see what happens with the one shot barrages and how it compares with them to the increased cost on the CLP, after the recent limit to them.

But that part aside, thanks for the report, Markconz. It is a pity that the initial barrage was so lucky in getting the three Disrupt hits on both of them to be able to break them as that determined the victor too much, but the positioning of the templates had to be extreme to get the first on one of the Titans but afar enough from its center so the second and third template could position on both sides to get the center of the template each on one of the Titans so congrats on the cunning there. If only could put the third template touching the second instead of having to both touch the first one like says in the rules things would be easier ... but well where is the challenge that way?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:30 pm 
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On the clp. The issue we had before was with three minorus was that everyone auto included the 2x quake + clp. They'd set them up in a corner and have cover for the entire bored. It never did a huge amount of damage for how fearsome it looked on paper but it was boring to play against. It was the same issue the AMTL list had with the reaver. We changed the clp to ignore lof instead of give indirect which seems to have fixed the issue with AMTL. Skitarii still auto took the formation so we reduced it to two units which fixed the issue.the formation can be used to harass but it was much less effective.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Sorry, I don't see how the list as written reduces the unit to two units? Neither apparently did my opponent?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Abetillo wrote:
It is a pity that the initial barrage was so lucky in getting the three Disrupt hits on both of them to be able to break them as that determined the victor too much, but the positioning of the templates had to be extreme to get the first on one of the Titans but afar enough from its center so the second and third template could position on both sides to get the center of the template each on one of the Titans so congrats on the cunning there. If only could put the third template touching the second instead of having to both touch the first one like says in the rules things would be easier ... but well where is the challenge that way?

So we definitely played that wrong. Have always assumed you strung out the templates, but probably NEVER in the past used more than two templates anyway. We did discuss wider separation for the two big titans but thought that it was likely that the templates could have got TWO formations somehow and that would have been equally effective overall (and might have actually done some damage rather than just laid BMs). The Eldar army had lots of 6 DC or equivalent formations that were vulnerable to two Barrage attacks.

Comparing the Plasma armament options and costs. Both have DC2, 2 void shields, Fearless.
Plasma weapons are all slow firing. 2 x AP5+ (30 cm) on both.

NetEA, 2 Ordinatus Minorus (Plasma Destructors), 400 points
Move 15 cm. Firepower totals: DC4, 4 voids, 10 x MW2+ (75 cm), 4 x AA6+ (30 cm)

EpicUK, 3 Ordinatus Minorus (Plasma Cannons), 425 points
Move 20 cm. Firepower totals: DC6, 6 voids, 9 x MW2+ (60 cm)

Alternate load outs include:

EpicUK, 3 Ordinatus Minorus (2 Plasma Cannons, Plasma Destructor), 450 points
Move 20 cm. Firepower totals: DC6, 6 voids, 6 x MW2+ (60 cm), 4 x MW3+ (90 cm)

NetEA, 3 Ordinatus Minorus (Plasma Cannons), 425 points
Move 15 cm. Firepower totals: DC6, 6 voids, 6 x MW2+ (60 cm), 6 x AA6+ (30 cm)

Adding an extra Carapace Landing Platform to the first NetEA plasma destructor formation
would currently cost 100 points and give them non-LoF shooting on sustain, advance, double.
So could shoot out to 105 cm (move 30, shoot 75) with equivalent of 10 x MW3+. Fairly Potent.

Perhaps costing the CLP at 50 points might deal with those options (2 Quake Cannons, 1 CLP
or 2 Plasma Destructors, 1 CLP) more effectively than reducing back to smaller Minorus formations.
I'd still like to be able field more robust 3 Minorus formations. The one core to one Ordinatus
formation makes it difficult to get many dedicated formations, but Fearless makes the two
strong formations more viable.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Fir Iolarion 4.2.6 vs Skitarri 2.1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Andrew_NZ wrote:
Adding an extra Carapace Landing Platform to the first NetEA plasma destructor formation
would currently cost 100 points and give them non-LoF shooting on sustain, advance, double.
So could shoot out to 105 cm (move 30, shoot 75) with equivalent of 10 x MW3+. Fairly Potent.
.


The plasma destructor is not a BP weapon..The Carapace Landing Pad only give ID to BP weapons...so it really only effects the Quake Cannon and Apocalypse Missile Launcher...

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