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Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27 http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32548	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Dave [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
A game from last Thursday. I'll let Chris post his list. Here's the Eldar that I took: Code: Incompertus, 3005 POINTS Biel-Tan Craftworld (Biel-Tan Craftworld (v4.2)) ================================================== WRAITHGATE [50] ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [400] 4 Howling Banshee, 4 Warp Spider, Exarch, Autarch GUARDIAN WARHOST (MOUNTED) [350] Farseer, 4 Wave Serpents, 7 Guardians GUARDIAN WARHOST (MOUNTED) [350] Farseer, 4 Wave Serpents, 7 Guardians ENGINE OF VAUL TROUPE [250] Cobra ENGINE OF VAUL TROUPE [250] Scorpion ENGINE OF VAUL TROUPE [250] Storm Serpent VOID SPINNER [275] Void Spinner RANGER TROUPE [100] 4 Ranger SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE [265] 2 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm, Fire Prism SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE [265] 2 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm, Fire Prism WINDRIDER TROUPE [200] 6 Jetbikes

Author:	Dave [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
Start of Game Start of Game The Scorpion advances and takes out a Soul Grinder Fiends double. The Void Spinner hits four cannons but they all save. Berzerkers march into a buiding and the Cobra doubles on them, taking one out. Daemonettes march up. A Swords of Vaul formation double and take out the second Soul Grinder and a DC off the alter. It marshals. A Storm Serpent doubles and lays a BM on it. The cannons marshal and move. SoV double and take out the Alter The Nurgle formation on the right flank advances. Guardians double and take out some Daemonettes. Jetbikes attempt to engage, fail and move out of the Webway. Guardians double and lay a BM on the Fiends. The Aspects engage the Daemonettes. The Daemons are wiped out for three Banshees. Rangers double and lay a BM on the Nurgle formation on the right flank. Screamers teleport. The Amazing Spiderman Avatar is summoned to engage them. Horrors teleport. As do more horrors and Lord of Change.

Author:	Dave [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
Turn 2 Turn 2 SoV advance and put a point of damage on the LoC. Aspects retain and engage the Berzerkers. The Eldar wipe them out and move back. Guardians retain and engage the Fiends. The Eldar are wiped out due to some excellent support and a bad result roll. A single fiend breaks and moves. The LoC engages the Storm Serpent, destroying it. Horrors engage the Aspects, destroy it and get BTS. Spiderman engages the Screamers. He kills one and another in result, they break. Cannons double and take out the Farseer and a HWP. Plaguebearers attempt to retain, fail, regroup and roll snake eyes. Guardians advance and take out a Soul Grinder. Bikes fail and regroup. Plaguebearers fail and regroup. A SoV formations takes out the LoC. The Cobra breaks the Cannons. The Scorpion advances and take out a Soul Grinder.

Author:	Dave [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
Turn 3 Turn 3 The Cobra attempts to advance, fails and shoots at Plaguebearers. They advance and lay a BM on the Guardians. The second formation egnges them. The Eldar loose and fall back. SoV double and grab blitz while laying some BMs on the BTS. They double and deny Blitz. The other SoV advance and grab two DTF objectives. Screamers grab Blitz Jetbikes deny Blitz. The Scorpion doubles its way around and grabs a T&H while taking out a Horror. The Void Spinner breaks them with a whole bunch of hits. End of Game End of Game

Author:	Dave [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
The game was a turn three 2-1 win for the Eldar with Blitz and T&H to BTS. Chris and I gave the Daemons quite a few bumps as we felt the list is more than a little underpowered as it is (it was going into this game with a 1-3 record, locally). ---- We made the entire army Initiative 1+. Given the costs of things I thought this was fairer for the Daemons. Being an assault army that's either teleporting in with BMs or suffering fire as it advances I thought it was necessary. We gave the Daemonic Herald Leader. An assault army like this needs a means for removing BMs. Orks have Grotz and Nobz, 'nids have expendable gaunts, etc. We removed Instability. Way too harsh. Daemons can be hacked down when broken/they loose an assault. That's "instability" enough, fluff-wise. ---- Beyond those I have some concerns with regards to point costs and popcorn, I'll post those in the main thread.

Author:	uberChris [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
Here is the Daemon army - full disclosure - I screwed up on the list build and had an extra 150 points (oops!) so I'm glad Dave won this game. 8 x Horrors + Lord of Change = 500pts (SC) 6 x Horrors + 2 x Soul Grinders = 400pts 9 x Screamers = 225pts 7 x Plaguebearers + 2 x Soul Grinders + Altar = 525pts (BTS) 6 x Plaguebearers + 2 x Soul Grinders = 400pts 6 x Bloodletters = 250pts 6 x Skull Cannons of Khorne = 300pts 6 x Daemonettes = 250pts 6 x Fiends of Slaanesh = 300pts Total = 3,150pts In addition to the changes that Dave proposed, we both think Heralds should also have a ranged shooting attack. Not only is this supported by the earlier 40K codex, but due to the lists' limited ranged shooting the Daemons need another way to place blast markers in order to set up engagements. The shooting attack stats could be unique to each mark of Chaos, or it could be generic across the four powers. This won't apply to support formations as they do not have access to Heralds. As Dave stated, the point costs for all formations need to be refined to reflect their stats. A bunch of point costs will come down and some will go up. Dave and I can start working on that. I thought that I'd try limiting the number of teleporting formations for this game because I felt it might be overpowered. However by choosing the best formations for teleporting, it left other slow, purely hth formations foot-slogging it across the board. Dave and I considered making teleport into a 5pt per unit upgrade. This way all formations could teleport if desired, but the cost of the upgrade will reduce the number of formations to balance it out. Our next game will have the whole Daemon army teleport to see what happens. Nurgle and Tzeentch formations are solid performers, I'll do some work on Khorne and Slaanesh formation builds and deployment in order to maximize their abilities. The lists' limited shooting is pretty good, but as the game goes on and casualties mount, the army is hard pressed to deal with an opponent at range. It can also be a slow army as they have no transports and most of the formations move only 15/20cm. These are merely observations and not complaints. It can be a powerful but unforgiving army to play, which fits the theme nicely. I'm looking forward to working more on this unique and fun list - only with better math skills next time

Author:	Ginger [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
Interesting report. So in summary, the list is not unlike the Eldar Harlequin list, having a number of specific weaknesses to offset it's very good CC abilities. Another thought might be to follow the Harlequin theme and allow the list to take Chaos allies, giving access to shooting and transport.

Author:	atension [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Daemon World vs NetEA Biel-Tan - 2017-07-27
I think the list theme specifically mentions that it isnt going to include allies from other chaos lists. Currently building a daemon incursions force myself and am looking forward to getting some play testing done with it also. In its current state I must agree it seems rather unforgiving and underpowered at the moment. Teleporting seems to be critical for the list though. Unsurprising you had such a tough time even with an over costed list since you didn't teleport. I agree it's a tough one to balance. The 5pt/unit upgrade for teleporting is an interesting idea. Though I think the core formations are currently over costed on purpose to support the current teleport allowance rule.

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