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OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31929	Page 1 of 2

Author:	kyussinchains [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:	OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Got a game in with the list on thursday night against dptdexys and his codex marines I took Great Gargant - Boss, Mega Lobba, Gatling Kannon, Ripper Fist, Flakka Dakka, Power fields Gargant - Ripper fist, 2x Gatling Kannon, Power Fields Gargant - Ripper fist, 2x Gatling Kannon, Power Fields Supa Stompa - 2x Soopagun, Mega Chopper, Power Fields Supa Stompa - 2x Soopagun, Mega Chopper, Power Fields Killa Kanz Killa Kanz Fighta Bombas Dptdexys took (I think) Scouts Scouts Terminators - Supreme commander Terminators - Chaplain Predator Annihilators - hunter Devastators Strike Cruiser Landing Craft Thunderhawk Thunderhawk Thunderbolts Thunderbolts Setup I garrisoned both sets of Kanz on overwatch, one on the blitz to keep them out of trouble, the other on my right flank, I deployed the gargants in a clump to hopefully BM any daring air assaults that might come in Turn 1 - Marines win strategy roll and force orks to go first fighta bombers fail to go onto CAP and stand down strike cruiser pie-plates neatly land on one killa kan mob, killing 2 Devs retain and engage, breaking the kanz in 2 rounds of combat, one kan manages to snip some heads off before dying Great Gargant doubles forward, pushes it and catches fire Tbolts strafe second kan formation who save two hits Kanz attempt to marshall, they fail but remove blast markers Scouts double Supa Stompa doubles and shoots the devastators placing a blast marker tbolts strafe broken kanz, wiping them out Gargant doubles towards scouts, pushes it and catches fire Scouts double up and plink the gargant Supa stompa doubles forward and hits the scouts, killing a stand and a rhino Landing Craft lands and crossfires gargant, stripping 5 shields Gargant pushes to double into eye of mork range and shoots the landing craft, misses horribly, OGBM now out of activations Terminators land and shoot the gargant which saves both hits Terminators land and shoot the gargant which saves both hits End phase - Great gargant takes a point of damage from the fire, stuff rallies etc Goff gargant gets a second fire and 2 points of damage.... Deathskull gargant puts his fire out! huzzah! Turn 2 - marines win strategy rolloff Terminators combined engage and destroy goff stompa, losing one stand in the process Preds retain and sustain on deathskull gargant in a crossfire, breaking it, he runs off in tears crying about being bullied Goff Gargant engages intermingled terminators, killing many for the loss of a few shields, the two characters peg it Supa Stompa fails to sustain, shoots devs, kills one and breaks them -SCENE MISSING- Kanz go back on overwatch Tbolts refuse to play fair and shoot the poor defenceless wee kanz Fightas strafe the scouts, killing a scout and a rhino, they withdraw The camera decides to take a photo by itself.... look at that parqetry flooring, lovely Great Gargant seeks revenge on the predators and kills one, yeah, take that tbolts break kanz Landing Craft engages and wipes them out pic missing, thunderhawk lands and collects broken terminator characters, supcom rallies, chaplain fails End Phase - Goff Gargant gets another fire Great Gargant continues to smoulder Dethskull gargant clearly has a lot of asbestos in his construction as his fire goes out again Turn 3 - Marines win strategy Start of Turn Pic missing but the preds crossfired the deathskull gargant again, killing it Goff Gargant shoots scouts (I think) Great Gargant doubles back to his T&H objectives I think the supa stompa got hit by planes and lost his shields? I can't remember yup I do remember, all 4 shots from the planes hit.... Stompa lumbers over and shoots preds, taking another one out Tbolts plink the great gargant Fightas fail to CAP again Thunderhawk lands and shoots great gargant Landing Craft Engages gargant (because the marines had already won 2-0 at this point) and despite taking two points of damage and the gargant being +3 on resolution, WINS THE RUDDY COMBAT BREAKING THE GREAT GARGANT Great Gargant Scuttles off into marine table half but promptly fails to rally Pic missing but 2nd thunderhawk drops supcom on orky blitz getting blitz, T&H and TSNP into the bargain for a nice 3-0 win Thoughts Another very skewed matchup, but the gargants were out activated and picked apart, with 2 scout formations on the table, there was nothing much to really rush towards, I could have doubled the supa stompa to guard my blitz, but he could have been broken through blast markers so I still would have lost Dave and I worked to ensure I didn't make too many cockups and I felt my choices were sensible given the circumstances.... perhaps next time I should march all 3 gargants to the centre line objectives T1, then put them all on overwatch T2 in a clump.... I really like the OGBM list from a fun POV, it really captures the clanking gargants wandering around on fire feel, but I just can't see it as a particularly powerful list if your opponent plays sensibly against it (which is honestly how I feel about the AMTL list too, just to a lesser degree) the extra activation from taking the cheap gargants didn't really make much of a difference in this game

Author:	atension [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Very entertaining report! Poor gargants! Haven't used the list in a while but that's more or less how most of my games turn out as well, still fun mind you. Though I usually use an AA upgrade or two to at least have some BMs on the assaulting flier formation. I've tried the clump idea also but your opponent can (with some careful measuring) generally cause the Gargants to block LOS for their own supporting fire. Then you really never get the chance to go on OW as its just a heated battle to the end (at least against that type of marine list).

Author:	PFE200 [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Thanks for the report.. had to LoL about the camera taking a picture by it self.....My sometimes tells me, that my 6mm men are alive, by saying "blink detected".. ..

Author:	mordoten [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Thank you very much sir! A great report! And VERY interesting to see that once again the Gargants doesn't turn the enemy into a steaming pile of go while easily securing their objectives.

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Good to see this isn't an insurmountable list.

Author:	flyingthruwater [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
This list gave us one of the bloodiest assaults we've ever seen. 2 big Tyranid Swarms combined assaulting a Mega Gargant. Over 2 rounds of combat I think I managed to kill 20-odd stands of hormagaunts and still lost the combat lol! EpicUK tyranids BTW so gaunt kills didn't count for combat res. So messy.... Sent from my 4034X using Tapatalk

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Having read the report now, I think I would have gone after the Predators rather than the Scouts with the Fighta Bombers as AT Preds are a big threat but have weak armour, any reason you picked the Scouts that I'm missing? I probably would not have Pushed and picked up fires on turn 1 if not going for anything of great priority (toward Scouts?), and maybe not split up the Gargants so much on turn 1 too (tho that can be hard to avoid). Maybe the 2nd formation of kans would have been better off deploying somewhere they could reach cover from on turn 1? I see the WE's were generally in the open. I tend to hop from cover to cover so enemy ranged shooting potency is cut and engagement angles restricted by the terrain LOS rules, and ,place objectives to facilitate a path of advancement that allows that. Did anything prevent that?

Author:	Tiny-Tim [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Thanks for the report. It matches up with my feelings too.

Author:	kyussinchains [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
The preds had a hunter so there was a fair chance that I'd lose a plane going in, then I could expect one hit with a 50/50 chance of it being saved (which it would have been, dave rolled a 4 for his rhino save for the single AT hit I got) so I went for a formation I stood a better chance of breaking and that had not already activated The kanz probably should have just deployed near cover, I agree I pushed the deathskull gargant as it could not have gotten into engage range otherwise, the great because I wanted to get it as far forward as possible without risking the march Sitting in cover was probably more of a risk to me than anything else, preds aside Dave had very little shooting and could largely pick where he engaged so I doubt it would have made a great deal of difference, will try it out next time

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Quote: The preds had a hunter so there was a fair chance that I'd lose a plane going in, then I could expect one hit with a 50/50 chance of it being saved (which it would have been, dave rolled a 4 for his rhino save for the single AT hit I got) so I went for a formation I stood a better chance of breaking and that had not already activated Interesting. Not the choice I'd have made as the Scouts are either AP (useless) or CC (suicidal) biased so I wouldn't have seen them as a priority target. Something something quantum Quote: Sitting in cover was probably more of a risk to me than anything else, preds aside Dave had very little shooting... Might have made it harder for the Preds to get three Crossfires if you had terrain to restrict LOS in one or the other direction? YMMV, am not psychic. What would the risk have been, terrain tests?

Author:	jimmyzimms [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Great game! Something I just wanted to bring up in general is that when you're facing a tier 1 player with a 55:10 win:loss ratio with marines in tournament games fighting a swapped list rematch is probably enlightening if possible. I mean for example, Kyuss if you were fighting me playing OGBM, your inevitable win means less than your inevitable win on both games with a swapped army One thing I notice it that there's a def lack of roads and on the tables where they, when coupled with the Push 'em harder rule may have additional utility considering the needs of gargants to get within assault range. That extra boost really can make all the difference without overly exposing you to too many fires to eek out those extra cm in movement. Something to ponder. A wee bit off topic (probably worth being in the actual dev thread but I can't be arsed to double post) but I really think we need to dig more into the extreme 5 gargant build that Matt came up with. What was interesting was that he basically can camp all T&H 4 objectives while still having a roving gargant to plug holes. With that being the case, why bother worrying about a blitz and would be a bear to shift. I think this is somewhat the point Ben was making about having too many w/e to handle with a typical all comers list. I think there's little to worry about this being the all conquering list. It seems fun and zany and somewhat silly and that's good. There's probably just a few tweaks here and there needed in reality; mordoten's done amazeballz at finalizing and capitalizing on E&C's foundation.

Author:	kyussinchains [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
@E&C Considering the scouts were used to claim crossfire from twice, I felt that their main utility was being able to stand at a given location... I could have gone after the preds but given the dice rolls in the end, it wouldn't have made a difference... And yes I didnt want to push the DTT tests, I'll try it differently next time... @Jimmy Dave and I tried to ensure that his excessive experience benefitted me as well, he would point out if I was making a mistake so I dont think it was as much of a 'better player' effect, he avoided fighting on my terms (and the one time he took a risk I juuuust didnt quite capitalise on it, mostly thanks to crappy assault res dice leaving his BTS supcom alive) Roads are worth mentioning, we dont use them much, maybe we should have... In all honesty though, against a highly mobile and reliable army like marines with a 4 activation advantage, you'd struggle with any build, he waited for my army to tap out, then did most of the work when I couldn't react... Pretty textbook really, he didnt give me many chances... And just to point out earlier this year I managed to beat RichardL, a much better player than me, using a similar dark angels build against his AMTL by using basically the same tactics Dave used against me, I'm not sure that WE lists have an answer to being out maneuvred and out activated so heavily...

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Quote: given the dice rolls in the end, it wouldn't have made a difference Well Dave's famous quantum dice will always provide for all eventualities, not just the game you're actually playing, of course.

Author:	Kyrt [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
roads is a good point, it has been commented on a few times that we could do with some at the epicuk tournies too. not the most exciting things to make in quantity though, and likewise not all that cheap to buy in quantity.

Author:	Saukopfblende [ Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OGBM v3.3.1 vs Codex Marines
Nice report! I got a question though: what´s the sense in landing before shooting for the Landing craft and the Thunderhawk? Please enlighten me.

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