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Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31727	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons
With apologies for the erratic photos, distracted by the heat of the battle . . . Recently I had another game with the Harlequins, this time using a limited force of Biel Tan ground and air allies, the intention being to see how boosting the activations helps the list, and trying to spam bikes. The opposing army was Thousand Sons played by Steve Harlequins (4.4.2) Cost Formation Upgrades 450 Harlequin - Great Harlequin 325 Promenade - Troupe Leader 325 Promenade - Troupe Leader 425 Harlequin - Troupe Leader - Shadowseer 275 Promenade 350 Mimes - Master Mime 150 Guardians 200 Eldar jetbikes - inc Vyper 200 Eldar jetbikes - inc Vyper 300 Phoenix Bombers 0 Gate The Thousand sons (E-UK) were as follows Cost Formation Upgrades 430 Retinue - Chaos Warlord (SC) - Defiler 305 Retinue 305 Retinue 275 Defiler Pack 425 Terminators - Daemonic pact 300 Armoured Co. 300 Warphound 300 Warphound 150 Doomwings 150 Space Cruiser 60 Daemon pool (4x lesser daeomons) The TS blitz was placed centrally with their T&H placed on either side table edge, the Harlequin Blitz was placed towards the right flank, with T&H placed opposite the enemy Blitz. After some thought I chose to convert the Harlie Blitz into a WraithGate. Because of the enemy Space Cruiser the Harlequins chose to fight across the table, and kept the Mimes, a Promenade and Guardians off table partly to reduce the impact of the enemy Space Cruiser, and also to keep a mobile reserve. Both sides spread out their forces across the base table edges. Turn one Cegorach was placed behind the central building (see note below) The Harlequins won the strategy roll and decided to let the TS go first. - TS immediately called in the space barrage which caught the Promenade on the extreme right, killing two and breaking it. Attachment: IMG_0617.JPG [ 1.49 MiB \| Viewed 2422 times ] - The Harlequins moved the Guardians out of the gate into woods - TS Doomwings went on CAP - Harlequins advanced Eldar Bikes behind the central building Attachment: IMG_0611.JPG [ 1.36 MiB \| Viewed 2422 times ] - TS advanced the Defilers to the edge of the central ruins - Harlequins marched a Harlequin troupe into rubble within 30cm of the Defilers - TS Doubled a Warphound forwards to the edge of a wood on the right, shooting the Harlequins and placing a BM Attachment: IMG_0608.JPG [ 1.42 MiB \| Viewed 2422 times ] Attachment: IMG_0607.JPG [ 1.55 MiB \| Viewed 2422 times ] Attachment: IMG_0606.JPG [ 1.42 MiB \| Viewed 2422 times ] - Harlequins moved the second Eldar jetbikes forward near the central Harlequin troupe placing a BM on the Defilers

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins Vs Thousand Sons
- TS advanced a retinue slightly onto a central hill in front of their Blitz - Harlequins doubled the left hand promenade to the left of the central building - TS moved the Armoured company forwards shooting the Jetbikes killing the Vyper. - Harlequins moved the Great Harlequin troupe into buildings on the left flank near Cegorach. - TS moved the second Warphound forwards shooting and the Jetbikes killing one, breaking the formation which retreated back behind a hill. Attachment: IMG_0618.JPG [ 1.47 MiB \| Viewed 2416 times ] - Harlequins doubled a promenade beside the central building to threaten both Warphound and armoured company - TS advanced a Retinue into rubble shooting the Promenade beside the central building, placing a BM Attachment: IMG_0619.JPG [ 1.57 MiB \| Viewed 2416 times ] - Harlequins used the Phoenix bombers to attach the right hand Warphound. The Doomwings on CAP attacked (one hit saved). PB shots stripped a shield and placing a BM Attachment: IMG_0621.JPG [ 1.51 MiB \| Viewed 2416 times ] - TS moved a retinue up to the edge of the central buildings in support of the defilers. Attachment: IMG_0620.JPG [ 1.43 MiB \| Viewed 2416 times ] End of phase Phoenix Bombers exited the far edge gaining a second BM, all formations recovered.

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins Vs Thousand Sons
Turn two Cegorach was placed between the central building and ruins near the Warphound As both sides wanted to teleport, the Harlequins forced the TS to deploy first. The terminators deployed in the buildings beside the Great Harlequin troupe gaining a BM, Attachment: IMG_0624.JPG [ 1.58 MiB \| Viewed 2415 times ] the Mimes then arrived near the Warphound. Attachment: IMG_0625.JPG [ 1.44 MiB \| Viewed 2415 times ] The Harlequins win the strategy roll (and breathe a sigh of relief). - The Harlequin troupe use infiltrate to charge the Defilers, who countercharge ending up with a Defiler against each Harlequin. The Shadowseer roll enthralled two defilers, and the other two died under a whirl of blades taking a Harlequin with them. Since all the defenders had died (the other two being excluded from the assault) the assault was won, placing BMs on nearby TS formations. The remaining two Defilers ‘withdrew’ forwards towards the Harlequin Blitz. - Encouraged by the success, the Mimes assaulted the Warphound (unaffected by the Shadowseer) which also died under a blaze of colour taking a Mime with it, placing a BM on nearby TS Armoured formation. Attachment: IMG_0626.JPG [ 1.49 MiB \| Viewed 2415 times ] - With Farseers on the table, the Great Harlequin decided to retain again, assaulting the nearby Terminators. This time the 6x FS attacks were ineffective and the entire Harlequin formation was eliminated for the loss of a single Terminator. Attachment: IMG_0628.JPG [ 1.38 MiB \| Viewed 2415 times ] - In retaliation, the Retinue assaulted the Promenade by the central building using FF, killing all the Harlequin jetbikes for no loss (RA4+ armour!!!) Attachment: IMG_0629.JPG [ 1.4 MiB \| Viewed 2415 times ]

Author:

Ginger [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:17 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Harlequins Vs Thousand Sons

- The Harlequins used the Eldar Jetbikes to assault the TS Armoured formation, killing a Land Raider and breaking the formation for the loss of a jetbike. They consolidated beside the Mimes to provide FF capability against the anticipated assault by the second TS retinue.
- The first TS Warphound advanced and shot the right flank Promenade, killing another unit and breaking the formation
- The Harlequins attempted to bring on the Phoenix Bombers, but failed
- The TS Doomwings ground assaulted the Jetbikes on the baseline, breaking them.
- The Harlequins brought in the off-table promenade placing it near Cegorach to ensure an unbroken Harlequin formation would remain at the end of the turn.
- The TS decided that the second Retinue was too far from the Mimes so assaulted the Harlequin formation instead. Wary of the Shadowseer, two Rhinos were placed in front which were duly enthralled together with a TS Tactical. In the ensuing FF, the Harlequins were wiped out for no loss (dratted RA4+ armour again!!!), placing BMs on the Mimes and Jetbikes.
- The remaining TS retinue advanced to the other side of the ruins occupying the location of the destroyed Harlequins

End phase
The Doomwings flew off, the right hand flank Promenade rallied, but the rearmost Eldar Jetbikes did not.

Turn three
Cegorach was left in the same position, influencing the battle between the two Harlequin T&H objectives.
The Guardian Farseer brought in the Avatar ready to defend the Blitz.
The Harlequins win the strategy roll

- Faced with too many targets, the Harlequins decide on a pre-emptive assault on the Warphound with the remaining two right-hand Harlequin jetbikes. Against the odds, they score two hits for no loss and win the resolution.
- Retaining the Mimes assaulted Retinue three in CC, and were wiped out (did I mention RA4+ Marine armour!!)
- Using their second retain the Avatar commanded the Guardians on a pre-emptive assault wiping out the defilers in an attempt to protect the Blitz.

- In reply, Retinue one assaulted the intermingled Eldar Jetbikes and Promenade in FF. The jetbikes were wiped out and the Promenade broken for the loss of two Deamons (RA Marines again!!)
Attachment:

IMG_0631.JPG [ 1.42 MiB | Viewed 2414 times ]

At that point the game ended. The Harlequins had no active formations in the enemy table-half and had lost their BTS while the TS could still activate Retinue three to control their own objectives winning the game 3-0.

============
Post game thoughts.
Well that was brutal in the extreme. While the Harlequins were able to do their thing with the 'normal' targets, RA4+ armoured troops were a completely different prospect even in CC, and just about invulnerable to the Harlequins in FF.

1. We agreed the Troupe Leader and Master Mime should gain FS on their Extra Attack (an oversight)
2. Cegorach MUST be placed at the start of each turn, even if the Harlequins are not intending to assault or even move near the enemy.

Author:	Tiny-Tim [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons
Thanks for the report Ginger. TS are very tough to beat if you don't have MW & TK to back you up. Good to see how the Quins are progressing though.

Author:	StevekCole [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons
Yeah - it was a good game. I tried to come out and play rather go for a very boring warphounds, armour co, defilers on overwatch move as I don't think we'd have learned much from that. The Harlies were able to mop up the more fragile units (though beating defilers in close assault is no small feat) but the counter assaults from the TK sons infantry proved a real problem for them. Losing the BTS to the termies in close assault was just bad dice. One other question that came up was whether the shadowseer could/should be able to enthral as part of support fire (as support fire happens after conventional assault attacks). Overall I felt that the harlies were slightly too limited in their activation count. They're certainly fearsome when they get to assault on their own terms but don't stand up to counter assaults well. Yes they struggled with the TK son infantry but imagine they had been say mech infantry, the harlies would be starting up to 5 down (BMs, 2x outnumber, inspiring) and their limited firefight means they're not going to do much damage in return. That said they have a nice distinctive feel to them - the mimes are basically lictors in S5 army which is very entertaining (but still with notable weaknesses) plus the bikes are a great little unit! One other point to note is that while TK son shooting ain't great, Harlies armour makes them pretty resistant to shooting especially if they can get into cover. I think if they lost RA (as some have suggested) there would be a real risk of them just getting absolutely shredded before they hit home in assaults! While TK sons are a tough opponent, I felt that air assault marines or Biel Tann would make an absolute mess of the harlies as stands (one for a future game Gavin?).

Author:

Ginger [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:13 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons

StevekCole wrote:

Overall I felt that the harlies were slightly too limited in their activation count. They're certainly fearsome when they get to assault on their own terms but don't stand up to counter assaults well. Yes they struggled with the TK son infantry but imagine they had been say mech infantry, the harlies would be starting up to 5 down (BMs, 2x outnumber, inspiring) and their limited firefight means they're not going to do much damage in return.

That does depend rather on whether the Harlies have been shot (OW?), who initiates the assault and whether the Harlies have a Leader (inspiring) and Shadowseer (reducing enemy formation count).

If the Mech Co starts the assault on a bare Harlie formation (having prepped first), then the Harlies are going to lose, the only question being by how much.
If the Harlies have a leader, a Shadowseer and initiate the assault, they might just get the Shadowseer to enthral the IG Commissar (removing his inspiring) and their FS and other CC attacks should cull 5-7 units for the possible loss of 1, making them ~4+ in the assault (-2 outnumbered, +5 kills, +1 Inspiring)

StevekCole wrote:

While TK sons are a tough opponent, I felt that air assault marines or Biel Tann would make an absolute mess of the harlies as stands (one for a future game?).

I suspect that a pure Harlequin list will probably lose against many armies because of the many inbuilt weaknesses of the list. However, where there are numbers of other Eldar formations around to provide supporting fire etc, things become far less certain even if the Harlies are caught by a FF assault, because their 5+RA armour makes them reasonably resilient allowing the other tricks to come into the assault resolution.
Consequently the list becomes rather stronger as the ratio of formations reaches (passes?) 50-50 'Allies to Harlequins.

StevekCole wrote:

One other question that came up was whether the shadowseer could/should be able to enthral as part of support fire (as support fire happens after conventional assault attacks).

This one is quite tricky. Given the various weaknesses in the list, I would quite like to allow the Shadowseer to 'enthrall' units under any pure Harlequin assault. Even so, this raises two issues:-

Q. Should the Shadowseer enthral the enemy in an assault that combines Harlies with something else?
A. I think the answer is "no", because the 'others' are not part of the Harlequin's story and not as captivating . . .
Q. Should the Shadowseer enthral the enemy of another, separate Harlie formation as part of that assault?
A. This was the question raised in the battle.
- Steve felt that this came under the 'support fire' process so probably should not be included.
- I see this intervention (his psychic abilities etc) as more a general distraction that is always present and equally that support fire is also present throughout the assault, only being modelled this way in the rules for convenience.

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons
Tiny-Tim wrote: TS are very tough to beat if you don't have MW & TK to back you up. Possibly too tough Tim. Whilst I understand the desire to give the Thousand sons marines something to balance the loss of shooting, Terminator level armour (4+RA) seems a tad OTT, especially given they are also Fearless and the formation size and cost. I suggest 5+RA would be much more appropriate and also more distinctive from the TS Termies.

Author:	StevekCole [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons
Ginger wrote: Tiny-Tim wrote: TS are very tough to beat if you don't have MW & TK to back you up. Possibly too tough Tim. Whilst I understand the desire to give the Thousand sons marines something to balance the loss of shooting, Terminator level armour (4+RA) seems a tad OTT, especially given they are also Fearless and the formation size and cost. I suggest 5+RA would be much more appropriate and also more distinctive from the TS Termies. Given that they have a 47% win rate in tournies despite being played almost exclusively by players of the quality of Steve54, Mike, Tom, and Dan I'd suggest they're far from broken. They've got a lot of weaknesses! I actually fully expect your Biel Tann eldar to thump them in our league match up!

Author:	PFE200 [ Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Harlequins + Biel Tan allies Vs Thousand Sons
Thanks for the report Ginger.. I do agree with stevecoke assessment of the harlies and I also think the RA should stay..

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