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AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
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Author:  uvenlord [ Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
Playtesting the Wolfs against some titans (with Plasma destructors)

AMTL
Warlord – Gatlin Blaster, Vulcan megabolter, Support Missile: Barrage, Laser blaster 875p
Reaver 1 - Lasburner, Plasma Destructor x 2 725p
Reaver 2 - Lasburner, Plasma Destructor x 2 725p
Thunderbolt 1 150p
Thunderbolt 2 150p
Sentinel 100p
Warhound – Standard outfit 275p

Space Wolfs
Great Company 1 – Venerable Dread 375p
Great Company 2 – Wolf Lord 350p
Terminators - Landraider Crusader, Hero 675p
Long Fang 1 – Hunter 375p
Long Fang 2 – Razorback AT 325p
Thunderhawk 225p
Skyclaws – Skyclaws, Hero 350p
Predator AT – Hunter 325p
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TURN 1
1. Long Fang 1 double and fires at Reaver 1 but misses, 1BM
2. Retain Air assault with Thunderhawk and Great Company 1 on Reaver 1 (almost everyone in CC). 1 wound and 3 shields on Reaver; 3 Spacewolfs dead. Second round: 2 Wounds (crit) and 1 shield; 3 more Spacewolfs dead. Space Wolfs wins and lone wolf flee toward a building. Reaver 1 is broken.
3. Warlord Barrage missile towards Great Company 2 and Terminators. Kills 1 Wolf and a Rhino. 7BM (4 BM on Terminators)
4. Great Company 2 Marshall. 1 BM left.
5. Warhound single and shoots Long Fang 1. Kills 2 Wolfs
6. Terminators double and fires at Warhound knocking down a shield
7. Sentinels doubles toward Terminators trying to protect the Warhound, places 1 BM on Long Fangs 1
8. Long Fangs 2 doubles toward a house and drops a shield on Reaver 2
9. Thunderbolt 1 kills 1 Rhino from Long Fangs 1
10. Predators double and shoots the Sentinels but only manage to kill 1!
11. Thunderbolt 2 attacks the predators (hunter misses) kills the hunter and a predator
12. Skyclaws double into the forest
13. Reaver 2 Single moves and fires the destructor at the Skyclaws. Killing them all!
END OF TURN: everyone except lone survivor of Great Clan 1 rallies.
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TURN 2
1. Long Fangs 1 marshall and kills 1 sentinel, breaking them
2. Reaver 1 single and unloads the destructor against the Terminators killing 3 Terminators and 2 Landraiders, breaking the unit.
3. Reaver 2 retains and engages the Long fang 2 killing them all and loosing 2 shields
4. Predators single and fires at the Warhound. 5 hits, 2 wounds and a crit kills it. (1 more sentinel is killed from watching the titan explode ;D
5. Warlord holds and fires at the predators killing them all!
6. Thunderhawk attacks Sentinels killing them all!
7. Thunderbolt 1 attack Long fangs 1 (hunter fires but the plane saves) killing the hunter.
8. Great Company 2 moves and protects Blitz
9. Thunderbolt 2 attacks Terminators without any luck
END OF TURN: everyone except lone survivor of Great Clan 1and the Warlord rallies.
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TURN 3
1. Thunderbolt 1 attack Long fang 1 and kills a Rhino
2. Thunderhawk lands next to the blitz and shoots at Reaver 1 shedding a shield.
3. Terminator engages Reaver 2 in a suicide attack but the Reaver wins and a lone Landraider flees.
4. Reaver 2 Single and fires at the Great Company 2, 11 hits with the Destructor but only 4 Wolfs within LOS…
5. Great Company 2 marshalls
6. Thunderbolt 2 attacks the lone Landraider but it saves.
7. Long Fang 1 Marshalls and shoots Reaver 1, 1 BM
8. Reaver 1 engage the lone Landraider killing it! BTS
9. Warlord turns and kills the Thunderhawk
END OF TURN: (Single) Great Company 1 fails again. No side have 2 victory points
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TURN 4
1. Long Fangs sustain on Reaver 1 lowering 4 shields!
2. Reaver 1 doubles and fires back finally killing the Long Fangs
3. Great Company 2 marshalls
4. Reaver 2 moves and secures objectives
5-6. Thunderbolts attack and kills all in Great Company 2 ending the game…
WIN AMTL Only a single stand of marines was left on the table! 4-0 (BTS, NSP, DTF, TH)
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CONCLUSION:
Not sure what went wrong with the Wolfs, I tried to hide but the really need to assault to do any damage… The Reavers killed everything they looked at with the Plasma destructors and up close they had the Lasburner (10 attacks in close combat) so they are really tough. Perhaps I could have placed the objectives different but right from the start I knew the titans plan. Warlord guarding the blitz, denying me BTS and Blitz. The Reavers would shoot run to take objectives and step 1 cm into my half then shoot again yet I couldn’t prevent it. Perhaps I could have had more luck in the first close combat with the Reaver and maybe killed it?

Anyway the game was kind of boring and one sided, titans is really hard to beat with space marines (if they play with lasburners)
If I would have hidden some more they would still have won on points as usual…
Nothing wrong with the Space Wolfs though but I need a better tactic against AMTL… :)

Edit: the numbers on the Reavers were all wrong, fixed!
Author:  mordoten [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
Thanks for the report!

How did the reaver loose 3 shields in the first round of the first engagement if almost all the marines where in CC? Shields are only usable against FF attacks...
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
Ouch!. Welcome to the club Uvenlord :|
uvenlord wrote:

CONCLUSION:
Not sure what went wrong with the Wolfs, I tried to hide but the really need to assault to do any damage… The Reavers killed everything they looked at with the Plasma destructors and up close they had the Lasburner (10 attacks in close combat) so they are really tough. Perhaps I could have placed the objectives different but right from the start I knew the titans plan. Warlord guarding the blitz, denying me BTS and Blitz. The Reavers would shoot run to take objectives and step 1 cm into my half then shoot again yet I couldn’t prevent it.

This was pretty much what happened in my game against Atension. They just double and shoot and you're left with a decimated formation.

Really I'd guess armies even with 10 activations struggle against the list because each titan can clear/break a formation a turn over three turns rapidly depleting your army to the point of being too weak to return the fight.

uvenlord wrote:

Anyway the game was kind of boring and one sided, titans is really hard to beat with space marines (if they play with lasburners)

I think unless you can really outnumber them, most armies will find them hard. Your list only had one activation more. So close to parity, you just didn't have enough to win and most armies that blind build this way will find this out too. Boring and one-sided was how it felt when I played them too which lead to my "un-fun" comment.

uvenlord wrote:

If I would have hidden some more they would still have won on points as usual…
Nothing wrong with the Space Wolfs though but I need a better tactic against AMTL… :)

Like I've said previously, hiding only lasts so long, and then you die.

TBH I think the only option Marines have are massed teleporting terminator assaults, other titans and air/drop pod assaults - and the Space Wolves don't get teleporting Termies so you were back to the wall immediately on choosing the Wolves. Air Assault/Drop assault might work with multiple drop pod attacks causing BMs on one or two titans if you're lucky after scattering but it's a complete gamble really when you have to hope you pick the right drop zone and have the enemy in it, plus then the titans are only broken and rally on 4+ at worst. Choosing Titan allies drops your activation count and you'd likely be giving up BTS anyway with one. Even taking a Warlord would likely see it get creamed because it's weaponry can't compete.
Author:  Vaaish [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
Thanks for the report!

I'm a bit confused at a couple of things. First of all Reaver 3 appears in turn 2, which reaver is this supposed to be?
Secondly, in the photos, which model is reaver 1 and which is 2?

In dealing with titans, especially with marines, its better to hammer one until it dies if you go after the battle titans rather than spread out across multiple formations. I'm not sure it was possible t1, but you were in a good position to take out reaver 1 which would have changed up a lot when you have close parity to titan activations. The alternative is to hang back and pick off the small stuff until you can grab objectives.
Author:  uvenlord [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
mordoten wrote:
How did the reaver loose 3 shields in the first round of the first engagement if almost all the marines where in CC? Shields are only usable against FF attacks...
The Thunderhawk and a single marine were FF and hit with all their attacks :)

Dobbsy wrote:
TBH I think the only option Marines have are massed teleporting terminator assaults, other titans and air/drop pod assaults - and the Space Wolves don't get teleporting Termies so you were back to the wall immediately on choosing the Wolves. Air Assault/Drop assault might work with multiple drop pod attacks causing BMs on one or two titans if you're lucky after scattering but it's a complete gamble really when you have to hope you pick the right drop zone and have the enemy in it, plus then the titans are only broken and rally on 4+ at worst. Choosing Titan allies drops your activation count and you'd likely be giving up BTS anyway with one. Even taking a Warlord would likely see it get creamed because it's weaponry can't compete.
My thoughts as well, will try a massive drop sometime but it would be more fun if the Wolfs had some other way of beating titans. A drop against such a small force could easily land on an empty space or be countered by moving the three titans together... Perhaps next time it will go better but right now it feels like the wolfs willhave a really really hard time if they come up against AMTL in a tournament. (as hard time as nids)

Vaaish wrote:
Thanks for the report!

I'm a bit confused at a couple of things. First of all Reaver 3 appears in turn 2, which reaver is this supposed to be?
Secondly, in the photos, which model is reaver 1 and which is 2?

In dealing with titans, especially with marines, its better to hammer one until it dies if you go after the battle titans rather than spread out across multiple formations. I'm not sure it was possible t1, but you were in a good position to take out reaver 1 which would have changed up a lot when you have close parity to titan activations. The alternative is to hang back and pick off the small stuff until you can grab objectives.
hmm, looks like I wrote the report a little late ;) Will look into my notes and see who it is and update the report.
Posting a picture with some notes so things become a little clearer I hope.
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The plan was to take out Reaver 1 and then go on to the next one. (and to take down the Warhound whenever it would show itself :) ) But the Reaver fled behind a building after loosing the assault so it wasn't really possible. Also the SM lack long firepower so by not moving forward it was very hard to come within reach (magical 45 cm...) In hindsight I shouldn't have placed my terminators in the open but I was hoping to win the initiative and then move away until the sentinels came along and blocked my road, leaving them in the "open" (they still had protection from their LR but 12 shots on 3+ hurts aswell :) )
Anything else you see that I could have done differently? I want to know so I can do it the next time I face Mordoten ;D Perhaps another build? (Still want it to be an tournament build though)
Author:  Vaaish [ Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL vs Space Wolfs 3000p
Thanks for the update, that helps clear things up. I don't play Wolves myself, but with Codex marines I'm usually fairly cautious in my approach trying to force the Titans to double into position to shoot. I'll also try to hold things like termies or air assaults until later in the game when I've whittled down shields or hits so I can aim for the titan I've got the best odds of killing.
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