Ok, let's see them! I will tr out 45cm Cobra's, but my opponents will be unhappy with that
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| White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=28384 |
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| Author: | Tiny-Tim [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Thanks for the report. Testing some interesting changes and I'd be interested to hear what others think to the Wraithguard change. |
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| Author: | pati [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
4 units of WG + 4 Serpents for 550p?! Sounds nonsense to me.. Cobra with 45cm? They are powerful enough, eldars are not famous for their mid/long ranged firepower! A range of 45cm with triple retain and mobility (move-shoot-move) will make them owerpowered I think. Thawk without air assualt bikes, scouts intermingle WG, a lot of weird to me -but maybe understandable on scene.. |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Still worthy to experiment and record. Thanks PFE100! |
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| Author: | mordoten [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
thanks for the report! Keep up the good work! |
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| Author: | pati [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Ok, let's see them! I will tr out 45cm Cobra's, but my opponents will be unhappy with that
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Cobras are widely considered to be one of the least useful units in the list, and that is largely because of the combination of poor range and BP (which hits on 6's when doubling). Far too unreliable for such a situational unit. The problem is well understood, it's agreement on the solution that has proved elusive. Personally I like a reduced formation size for the wraith guard, I think it has the potential to solve the problems with the list. But then I would say that as I suggested it myself
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| Author: | pati [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Yeah, the problem is their points cost, not their number -well, maybe at the end they should be more numerous as core units than the elite termies.. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
I don't think changing the stats of the Wraithguard is a good idea at all. Wraithguard work fine in the other Eldar lists and it's a significant change that's not needed. Dropping the numbers to 4 and their initaitive by 1 solves the issues without needing a stat change. Considering how powerful each of the guns they carry is in 40k the stand having two shots seems appropriate anyway. Lowering the unit size to 4 is definitely a good idea. They really need a point drop at the same time though - you can't just get rid of 1/3 of their numbers and keep the cost the same or slightly less. I would cost 4 Wraithguard around 250 myself. Cobras definitely need work - the long standing problem with the unit is it's tabletop stats don't match it's purpose in the background very well. It's background entry says about it that it is “Designed to find and destroy enemy war engines, their protective force fields are little defence against the D-cannon's heinous energies. The Cobra has little other weaponry, as its only role is to seek out and destroy the largest enemy war engines” yet due to the way the epic barrage template works the epic Cobra ends up being more effective at killing armoured infantry than WE. Various solutions have been suggested and tried over the years but in the end SG gave up and went back to the original stats. Giving it 45cm just makes it better while not actually addressing them problem. There's a different approach I would like to trial, which would focus the Cobra more on killing the largest war engines i.e. titans. The Cobra's D-Cannon works by ripping open a hole in the warp at the target point and because of the nature of the weapon in 40k it's D-cannon has the powerful and rare ability to ignore any void shields, power fields or the like that the target has, bypassing them untouched and opening the warp hole in the titan inside. There is an existing epic weapon that ignore shields because it also works by means of the warp (the Warp Missile in the TL list) so there's precedent and I would like to see the Cobra D-canon's distinctive ability to ignore titan's shields in 40k be adopted in epic too. It would be a powerful advantage, but would match the background and role the unit is meant to take and weapon stats could be tested and balanced from there taking it into account. |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
The whole Cobra BP TK things is just dumb. A regular Tk shot (even with the special ignore shields) is better representation I think. IDK, I'm hoping that the new Eldar AC can break some of the log jam that has seemed to occur here. I mean, how long have we been debating Howling Banshees now? 
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| Author: | GlynG [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
PFE100 wrote: Points are not set in stone and 250 to 275 is my feeling on the WG with 4 stands. The mount WG formation I'm heading for about 400 to 425. Changing the cost of the Wave Serpent upgrade too? 50 points each for them onto top of a base somewhere in the region of 250 seems good to me, there are a lot of advantages to having them mobile. PFE100 wrote: A very interesting idea on the Cobra. If I can I may take it for test spin, but not promises. I gather the range would be 30 cm and same stats line for the main gun, but have special rule saying it ignores shields, basically.. There's a range of ways it could be done and I would probably discuss it and see what people thought was a good implementation to trial of the ignore shields idea. It could have still have the single barrage attack, but maybe that would be a bit powerful on a sustain ignoring shields. The gun could well have two fire modes with an OR (Epic-UK did that with theirs), so a powerful barrage for most targets or a single attack with TKD3+1 or whatever and ignore shields for going after titans. jimmyzimms wrote: I'm hoping that the new Eldar AC can break some of the log jam that has seemed to occur here. I mean, how long have we been debating Howling Banshees now? Hopefully so, whichever of us they give the position to. Would you hate me if I said I might want to discuss Howling Banshees again though?  I like the big change of infantry only MW but I wonder whether CC3+ MW-inf first strike might be a bit too good and that CC4+ MW-inf first strike more sensible. Lets save that discussion for another time though.
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Not a fan of the epicuk cobra solution? |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: White Scars Vs Iyanden Craftworld(testing ideas) |
Having played with EUK cobras a few times now I have to say I think it's a good solution For those not aware the gun has two fire modes, either 30cm 3BP ignore cover, or single shot 30cm MW2+ TK(D6) Makes it a hugely dangerous titan hunter without also making it too potent against infantry On howling banshees, CC2+ first strike and an extra first strike attack on the exarch is plenty good enough I reckon, no need for excessive fiddly special rules IMO |
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