Tactical Command :: View topic - Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]

F***ING WIPED MY DAMN BATREP BY ACCIDENT AND YOU CAN'T UNDO! HOURS WASTED.
****! :{[]

Cannot be ***ed redoing right now.

Necrons 3
Tau 0
got reamed. only two formations left on board end of turn 3. Useless Tau.

Stealths
Died to a man before they activated. 6+ First Strike CC means nothing. Forgot to use the new teleport rule but it mattered not as they got shot at anyway before they were engaged.

Dobbsy wrote:

Stealths
Died to a man before they activated. 6+ First Strike CC means nothing. Forgot to use the new teleport rule but it mattered not as they got shot at anyway before they were engaged.

Obviously I can't see the layout but you said the stealths were put there to engage and your first activation sounded like a prep for this. So how come you did not retain to engage before they died? I assumed it was because they had a BM and you'd be risking failure.

Sounds like another bad day at the office!!

I do notice that you're not a fan of co-ordinated fire - it's a good way to lay at least 2/3 BMs on a formation, useful against monoliths. I've never been able to get Fusionheads to work for me either. You need to get exactly where you don't want to be to use them - up close!

It took me quite a few games to beat Necrons with Tau. Staying at range, like 60-90, and hitting them with coordinated fire from seekers and railguns helped a lot. Barracudas might also be your friend against all that air power too.

Didn't those broken monoliths phase out?

Not really sure what more to say - sounds like you've had it with Tau at the moment!

Edit: ok I forgot phasing out happens in the end phase - can't remember how I countered that to be honest. Breaking them does help stop the prepping and supporting fire though. Scouts and overwatch are also important.

It took me quite a few games to beat Necrons with Tau. Staying at range, like 60-90, and hitting them with coordinated fire from seekers and railguns helped a lot. Barracudas might also be your friend against all that air power too.

Scouts and overwatch are also important.

This was a ridiculous game

It was the worst pasting I've ever received.

On the Newcrons list:

Portal use
The ability to portal through broken Portals is not that fair to the opponent who has to work hard to actually kill Monoliths given they have Living Metal as well. I put in hard yards to kill/break them and still often had whole formations wiped off the board because Necron infantry can still move across the entire board through broken portals. The lack of speed in the Necron list is more than surpassed by the this ability. Who cares if you're slow? You can just double up portals, shoot to prep, get shot in return and be broken and still move towards the enemy to deliver an engagement. No other list can perform useful activations when broken.

Night Scythes
The ground attack/deploy troops through their portal brought up a weird point. If a Scythe lands, as it's designated an AC I can't shoot at it without AA when it does as it lacks an AV or Inf classification. We treated it as an AV when landed so my troops could shoot at it. Otherwise it's a little unfair. The ability to shoot on approach and not be part of the engagement seems unfair when you have 1+ initiative infantry to retain with.

Unit stats
There seemed to be a lot of 3+ FF on the infantry. I think the Newcrons pack the most 3+ in a list I've ever seen. there's really no way to come back from so many hits in engagement. Note: it may have just seemed this way in all the engagements I suffered

The question I have about the list is, what exactly is its weakness?[/

That's not exactly correct. eldar portals can also be used when broken. It's not an activation really but rather a passive ability. This is a point that has come up often before also with the old raiders list however.

What we've tried to do with Sautekh is to limit portal effectiveness by taking away the ability to leave the board through monolith portals.

The pondrous rule is also in place to limit their effectiveness in Sautekh. A trick I learned fast when playing oldcrons (raiders) was to use my withdrawal moves to get the portals into better positions.

I have been contemplating putting in a range limit to the new eternity gate portal. 60 cm. I'm hesitant still through.

Dobbsy wrote:

The question I have about the list is, what exactly is its weakness?[/

The same as for oldcrons basically.

Lack of shooting and short range, necrons rely heavily on engagements.

The workhorses of the list are the infantry phalanxes. They are potent at engagements, but they are also a weak link. Being infantry they're kind of easy to take out. Try and focus on them and kill them. A broken formation will go down fast. They're not fearless. This is more pronounced in sautekh as they can't leave the board.

Going after Monoliths is in my experience not as effective. But if you do take out enough then the army become very slow.

Deploy tight in the begining with some overwatch fire cover. This makes it hard to find an opening against you for the necrons (both old and new).

Author:	Dobbsy [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:47 am ]
Post subject:	Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
F*ING WIPED MY DAMN BATREP BY ACCIDENT AND YOU CAN'T UNDO! HOURS WASTED. ! Cannot be *ed redoing right now. Necrons 3 Tau 0 got reamed. only two formations left on board end of turn 3. Useless Tau.

Author:	Borka [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Dobbsy wrote: F*ING WIPED MY DAMN BATREP BY ACCIDENT AND YOU CAN'T UNDO! HOURS WASTED. ! Cannot be *ed redoing right now. Necrons 3 Tau 0 got reamed. only two formations left on board end of turn 3. Useless Tau. Bummer! Any thoughts on the necron list would be much appreciated from you or your opponent here or in the necron subforum. cheers

Author:	Tiny-Tim [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Been there & always use word processing software to write up and then transfer across nowadays. Any photos?

Author:	Dobbsy [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
OK take 2. Atension has the pics so will upload them when he passes over to me. 3000 points per side Tau Crisis + SC FW + Broadsides + FW + Bonded team Mech FW + Pathfinders + Bonded Team Broadsides Stealthsuits Railheads + 2 Railheads Fusionheads + Skyray Fusionheads + Skyray Recon Recon Newcrons (from memory) Phalanx + SC Phalanx Monolith Monolith Obelisk + Monolith Warbarque Pylon Night Scythe Night Scythe Flayed Ones Immortals Destroyers Turn 1 Necron – Teleport Pylon, Warbarque and both Monolith formations. All but the Pylon gain 1BM Tau Teleport Stealth close to Pylon in preparation for engagement 1 BM Tau win Strat. Tau – Railheads double over to put Pylon under fire with ML from Stealths = 1 BM only Necron – Night Scythe 1 Groundattack on Stealth delivering 1BM and Flayed ones Necron – retain with Flayed ones engage Stealth and wipe them out for no losses. Tau – Mech FW fail to activate and regroup Necron - Monolith 1 doubles towards and shoots Railheads = 1BM Necron – retain with Immortals engage Railheads out of Monolith 1 and wipe them out for no losses. Tau – Recon 1 fails to activate and regroups Necron – Monolith 2 shoots Recon 1 kills 1 = 2BM Tau – Crisis go on OW in woods in prep for suspected Night Scythe portal attack Tau - retain advance with Fusion head 1 and shoot Monolith 2 = 1 BM Necron – Phalanx 1 engage Fusionhead 1 from broken Monolith 2 and wipe out with no loss. Tau – Fusionhead 2 sustain and shoots Monolith 2 kills 2 = broken Necron – Warbarque shoots FW BTS in woods = 1BM Tau – Recon 2 move to shoot Phalanx 1 = 1 BM Necron – destroyers move out of Warbarque and shoot FW BTS 1 kill = +2BM Necron – Night Scythe 2 Ground attacks FW BTS 2 kills = +3BM - single Skyray places 1BM Necron – Phalanx 2 exits Monolith 1 onto objective Necron - Pylon goes on OW End phase Tau - FW BTS fails to rally(double 1s = fail on re-roll). Recon 2 rallies (1BM left) Necron – All rally except Monolith 2 end of turn 1 pic Turn 2 Necron - Obelisks Teleport no BM Tau win strat. Tau – Crisis shoot Phalanx 1 kill 5= broken and jump back inside woods. Tau – retain FW BTS marshall move away from obelisks trying to avoid next engagement remove only 4BM Necron – Warbarque deploys Destroyers and performs Combined Engagement on FW BTS and both intermingled Recon formations. 7 Recon = no hits 15 FW BTS = 3 Destroyer kills.... Straight roll off - Tau lose by 1! FW BTS, Recon 1 and 2 broken and flee. Tau – Broadsides shoot Obelisks and kill Monolith = broken Necron – Monolith 1 doubles and shoots Mech FW kills 1 Devilfish = 2BM Necron – retain with Immortals and engage Mech FW kill 3 Devilfish and 1 FW, lose 2 Immortals but win and break Mech Fw for 4 hackdowns and flee. Forced to move away but brings them into range of Pylon OW. Kills 1 = 1 Pathfinder and 1 FW left. Tau – Fusionhead 2 shoot Immortals and kills 2 = broken Necron – Flaed Ones engage FW BTS in wood from broken Monolith 2. All except 1 Broadside and 1 Flayed One die which is killed by Crisis support fire. Tau win a hollow victory. Necron – Night Scythes 1 ground attack Broadside and kill off BTS. Necron – Night Scythes 2 ground attack Recon 2 and wipe them out. End phase Necron – Monolith 1 fails to rally. Destroyers rally. Phalanx 1 fails to rally. Obelisks rally (1BM). Immortals rally (1BM) Tau – Mech FW rally(1BM). Recon rallies(2 BM). end of turn 2 pic Turn 3 Tau win strat Tau – Crisis shoot Monolith 1 for 3 MW and 2 AT hits = 1 BM!! Tau – retain with Broadsides = Hold action + shoot Monolith 2 for 1 kill = Broken. Monolith Flees toward Fusionhead 2 in prep for assault portal. Necron – Destroyers marshal out of broken Monolith 1 towards Fusionhead 2 Necron – Phalanx 2 retains and engage Fusionhead 2 from broken Monolith 1 and wipeout Fusionhead 2 for no losses Tau – Mech FW move to contest/deny Necron objective capture Necron – Warbarque shoots Mech FW = broken due to BMs Tau – Recon fails to activate = 1BM Necron – Night Scythes ground attack Recon and kill 1 = broken Necron – Night Scythes ground attack Recon and wipe them out. End phase Necron 3 BTS, TNH, TSNP Tau 0 end of turn 3 pic Only the Broadsides and Crisis suits remain intact on the table everything else is destroyed apart from 2 units from Mech FW who are broken. I think in turn 3 there were more Necrons on the table than last turn....

Author:	Dobbsy [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
This was a ridiculous game It was the worst pasting I've ever received. On the Newcrons list: Portal use The ability to portal through broken Portals is not that fair to the opponent who has to work hard to actually kill Monoliths given they have Living Metal as well. I put in hard yards to kill/break them and still often had whole formations wiped off the board because Necron infantry can still move across the entire board through broken portals. The lack of speed in the Necron list is more than surpassed by the this ability. Who cares if you're slow? You can just double up portals, shoot to prep, get shot in return and be broken and still move towards the enemy to deliver an engagement. No other list can perform useful activations when broken. Night Scythes The ground attack/deploy troops through their portal brought up a weird point. If a Scythe lands, as it's designated an AC I can't shoot at it without AA when it does as it lacks an AV or Inf classification. We treated it as an AV when landed so my troops could shoot at it. Otherwise it's a little unfair. The ability to shoot on approach and not be part of the engagement seems unfair when you have 1+ initiative infantry to retain with. Unit stats There seemed to be a lot of 3+ FF on the infantry. I think the Newcrons pack the most 3+ in a list I've ever seen. there's really no way to come back from so many hits in engagement. Note: it may have just seemed this way in all the engagements I suffered The question I have about the list is, what exactly is its weakness? On the Tau 6.71 Railheads Another useless performance by these guys. Wiped out after the placement of a single BM. The new railgun didn't get a look in so no feedback regarding it, but given the Living Metal rule I doubt it would have meant much anyway. Stealths Died to a man before they activated. 6+ First Strike CC means nothing. Forgot to use the new teleport rule but it mattered not as they got shot at anyway before they were engaged. Another pathetic effort by the Tau Third Phase list. The Newcrons actually shot better and more effectively than the Tau did! So many times the Tau firepower was not enough to kill off Newcron units. Time and again it gets smashed. Small, numerous formations just don't put out enough firepower to kill enemy formations(and they need to due to pathetic engagement ability), heck even the bigger ones don't. Command and control is terrible. It matters very little if you take numerous small activations when they die/break so easily. I'm really not sure what the difference is in the EUK playing group metagame (less terrain perhaps not sure) but I do not see what you are seeing whatsoever. It may very well be just the same but I think I'll be trying the Vior'la list from now (followed by the Fioka list when I get enough tanks ready) on as the Third Phase list is just toothless IMO and I'm tired of getting smashed. I don't think I've won a game with it in almost two years....

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental] http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=28204	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Kyrt [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Ouch.

Author:	Kyrt [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Dobbsy wrote: Stealths Died to a man before they activated. 6+ First Strike CC means nothing. Forgot to use the new teleport rule but it mattered not as they got shot at anyway before they were engaged. Obviously I can't see the layout but you said the stealths were put there to engage and your first activation sounded like a prep for this. So how come you did not retain to engage before they died? I assumed it was because they had a BM and you'd be risking failure.

Author:	Dobbsy [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Kyrt wrote: Dobbsy wrote: Stealths Died to a man before they activated. 6+ First Strike CC means nothing. Forgot to use the new teleport rule but it mattered not as they got shot at anyway before they were engaged. Obviously I can't see the layout but you said the stealths were put there to engage and your first activation sounded like a prep for this. So how come you did not retain to engage before they died? I assumed it was because they had a BM and you'd be risking failure. Yep it was the first time I've played against the NewcronsI and I had forgotten about his Aircraft portal ability so I wasn't expecting an air assault. I needed to put a BM on the Pylon before I assaulted.

Author:	Alf O'Mega [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Sounds like another bad day at the office!! I do notice that you're not a fan of co-ordinated fire - it's a good way to lay at least 2/3 BMs on a formation, useful against monoliths. I've never been able to get Fusionheads to work for me either. You need to get exactly where you don't want to be to use them - up close! It took me quite a few games to beat Necrons with Tau. Staying at range, like 60-90, and hitting them with coordinated fire from seekers and railguns helped a lot. Barracudas might also be your friend against all that air power too. Didn't those broken monoliths phase out? Not really sure what more to say - sounds like you've had it with Tau at the moment! Edit: ok I forgot phasing out happens in the end phase - can't remember how I countered that to be honest. Breaking them does help stop the prepping and supporting fire though. Scouts and overwatch are also important.

Author:	Dobbsy [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Alf O'Mega wrote: Sounds like another bad day at the office!! I do notice that you're not a fan of co-ordinated fire - it's a good way to lay at least 2/3 BMs on a formation, useful against monoliths. I've never been able to get Fusionheads to work for me either. You need to get exactly where you don't want to be to use them - up close! It took me quite a few games to beat Necrons with Tau. Staying at range, like 60-90, and hitting them with coordinated fire from seekers and railguns helped a lot. Barracudas might also be your friend against all that air power too. Didn't those broken monoliths phase out? Not really sure what more to say - sounds like you've had it with Tau at the moment! Edit: ok I forgot phasing out happens in the end phase - can't remember how I countered that to be honest. Breaking them does help stop the prepping and supporting fire though. Scouts and overwatch are also important. Yeah Alf, the Newcrons (Sautekh) don't phase out in this list. I didn't take Barracudas but they would have been fodder for the Pylon anyway and very rarely do anything useful. I didn't really have a chance to enact coordinated fire(I do use it in games) much because much of my army was dead or broken early. I lost 3 whole formations in turn 1 alone .

Author:	Andrew_NZ [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Tough Day at the Tomb Complex Alf O'Mega wrote: It took me quite a few games to beat Necrons with Tau. Staying at range, like 60-90, and hitting them with coordinated fire from seekers and railguns helped a lot. Barracudas might also be your friend against all that air power too. Scouts and overwatch are also important. Took me a while too. Lots of careful positioning on garrison and deployment with many going on Overwatch as soon as possible. A mass of Kroot (recently contracted by the Water Caste) to fill space. Embedded pathfinders to strengthen Fire Warriors and provide markerlights. Orcas to drop in and contest objectives late in the game. Never intermingled. Still not decided about shooting at Monoliths. Railgun (not-lance) seems to make no difference against most living metal armour iterations. Break them and they come at you or reposition. Once resorted to really concentrated firepower against a surviving pair of Monoliths: two formations of Broadsides air-landing from an Orca (to place 60 cm away), got 9 hits, allocated 4 on one and 5 on the other, one Monolith died twice, the other survived. The Vior'la list does look rather fun. I especially like the anti-Pylon deflector shielding on the "assault" Orcas.

Author:	Borka [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Dobbsy wrote: This was a ridiculous game It was the worst pasting I've ever received. On the Newcrons list: Portal use The ability to portal through broken Portals is not that fair to the opponent who has to work hard to actually kill Monoliths given they have Living Metal as well. I put in hard yards to kill/break them and still often had whole formations wiped off the board because Necron infantry can still move across the entire board through broken portals. The lack of speed in the Necron list is more than surpassed by the this ability. Who cares if you're slow? You can just double up portals, shoot to prep, get shot in return and be broken and still move towards the enemy to deliver an engagement. No other list can perform useful activations when broken. That's not exactly correct. eldar portals can also be used when broken. It's not an activation really but rather a passive ability. This is a point that has come up often before also with the raiders list however. What we've tried to do with Sautekh is to limit portal effectiveness by taking away the ability to leave the board through monolith portals. In the old raiders list you could engage out of one monolith and consolidate back to reserves through a second one (becoming untouchable), which seemed really frustrating to the opponent. Now you as the opponent can get back at the inf phalanxes. The pondrous rule is also in place to limit their effectiveness in Sautekh. A trick I learned fast when playing raiders was to use my withdrawal moves to get the portals into better positions. I have been contemplating putting in a range limit to the new eternity gate portal. 60 cm. I'm hesitant still through. Dobbsy wrote: Night Scythes The ground attack/deploy troops through their portal brought up a weird point. If a Scythe lands, as it's designated an AC I can't shoot at it without AA when it does as it lacks an AV or Inf classification. We treated it as an AV when landed so my troops could shoot at it. Otherwise it's a little unfair. The ability to shoot on approach and not be part of the engagement seems unfair when you have 1+ initiative infantry to retain with. A good point I hadn't thought about that. I'll have to add a note to that effect. Dobbsy wrote: Unit stats There seemed to be a lot of 3+ FF on the infantry. I think the Newcrons pack the most 3+ in a list I've ever seen. there's really no way to come back from so many hits in engagement. Note: it may have just seemed this way in all the engagements I suffered Immortals and Destroyers do yeah. I used the same stat as in raiders I like to keep as much continuity between sautekh and Raiders as possible. Warriors and flayed ones have had lowered save in sautekh however due to new fluff, but also in part to make them a tad weaker. Dobbsy wrote: The question I have about the list is, what exactly is its weakness?[/ The same as for oldcrons basically. Lack of shooting and short range, necrons rely heavily on engagements. The workhorses of the list are the infantry phalanxes. They are potent at engagements, but they are also a weak link. Being infantry they're kind of easy to take out. Try and focus on them and kill them. A broken formation will go down fast. They're not fearless. This is more pronounced in sautekh as they can't leave the board as easily (a player has to buy expensive warengines to do that). Going after Monoliths is in my experience not as effective. But if you do take out enough then the army become very slow. Deploy tight in the begining with some overwatch fire cover. This makes it hard to find an opening against you for the necrons (both old and new).

Author:	Kyrt [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Reading the report did make me wonder if the lack of phasing out is really as much of a nerf as we thought - it's somewhat situational. You're probably a better judge, but it seemed like maybe being on the board in position for an assault the next turn was more valuable than being off board during rally phase. Clearly it depends if your portal is already near to where you want the next assault to be.

Author:	Dobbsy [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tau 6.71 vs Sautekh Legion 0.3 [Experimental]
Borka wrote: That's not exactly correct. eldar portals can also be used when broken. It's not an activation really but rather a passive ability. This is a point that has come up often before also with the old raiders list however. Fair point (about the Eldar) it's not an activation but the passive ability still means that broken portals in this list can run closer to the enemy to deploy an engagement from the very opposite end of the board. Eldar get few portals and this list is all portals. Also Eldar portals are unlikely to want to stay near the enemy due to weak armour saves. Living Metal simply removes this weakness across the whole army. Borka wrote: What we've tried to do with Sautekh is to limit portal effectiveness by taking away the ability to leave the board through monolith portals. I think what's occurred is that portal effectiveness has remained but the infantry formation is now the limitation - to a degree. If a fully functional formation (or multiple) can engage a prepped unit and wipe it out from 100cm away that limitation isn't so great if their job is done. Phalanxes aren't super expensive and you can put the multiple formations through it to engage with support and limit the effectiveness of counter attacks in assault. Who would assault a formation with two in support FF? Borka wrote: The pondrous rule is also in place to limit their effectiveness in Sautekh. A trick I learned fast when playing oldcrons (raiders) was to use my withdrawal moves to get the portals into better positions. TBH I'm not really sure it played much of a part in this game given the ease with which Monoliths could soak fire and continue to spew out formations. Part of the problem was the smaller Tau formations' inability to hurt them much with shooting - most of my heavy shooters were either activated or destroyed when they needed to be available. Borka wrote: I have been contemplating putting in a range limit to the new eternity gate portal. 60 cm. I'm hesitant still through. We discussed this actually but only in a brief way after the game. Borka wrote: Dobbsy wrote: The question I have about the list is, what exactly is its weakness?[/ The same as for oldcrons basically. Lack of shooting and short range, necrons rely heavily on engagements. The Immortals and Destroyers and tanks are not light on shooting in numbers and get nasty engagement ability - part of the reason the Tau seemed so underpowered. They couldn't do much/enough damage through shooting (high Necron armour saves etc) and did practically nothing in assault (apart from the broken FW BTS). Borka wrote: The workhorses of the list are the infantry phalanxes. They are potent at engagements, but they are also a weak link. Being infantry they're kind of easy to take out. Try and focus on them and kill them. A broken formation will go down fast. They're not fearless. This is more pronounced in sautekh as they can't leave the board. Yeah I did find this (broke one and destroyed the other) however when the Destroyers and Immortals destroy formations piecemeal and didn't die all that easily the phalanxes seemed secondary to the fight. Borka wrote: Going after Monoliths is in my experience not as effective. But if you do take out enough then the army become very slow. Yes I had experienced this against the oldcrons list and played likewise, but the inability to take out enough of them was part of the problem and adds to the usable broken portals issue. Borka wrote: Deploy tight in the begining with some overwatch fire cover. This makes it hard to find an opening against you for the necrons (both old and new). Yeah I had set up in a castle with the FW BTS and Broadsides on OW and the recon scattered around it all to deny teleport zones so I could set up the rest of my army. In the end it didn't matter as Atension deployed further out.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/