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Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=27935		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Xenocidal Maniac [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Playtest of the most recent incarnation of the Blood Angels list including Predator Annihilators.

http://xenocidalmaniac.wordpress.com/20 ... -warriors/
Author:  kyussinchains [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Good report, looks like it mostly went your way too... love those games!

Just a question, when the decimator blatted your bikes, I assume the terrain didn't block LOS?
Author:  mordoten [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Awesome report! Really enjoyed reading it! Thanks!
Author:  Onyx [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Thanks for the report guys!
Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
It’s my opinion that the Iron Warriors list is quite powerful (indeed, Volrath has a winning record in our league)
Does that mean you think it's over-powered?
Do you (or Volrath) have any suggestions for the list?
Author:  Ole [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Great Report. 11 Activation in 3000pionts wasn't possible before 2.3!

Thank you!
Author:  Xenocidal Maniac [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Thanks for the nice comments, guys!

Kyuss - yeah, that's how we usually play it. The bikes just got the -1 for the cover and that was it. I'm vaguely aware that different groups play this differently, is that correct?

Onyx - I've been encouraging Volrath to contribute feedback on the Iron Warriors, but he never seems to get around to it. I don't necessarily think the IW list is overpowered. However, although we all do our best around here to balance lists through playtesting, the fact of the matter is that even some approved lists are generally more or less powerful than other approved lists. There is sort of a narrow band within which "balanced" lists fall, and I think both Volrath and I would place the IW list at the outer end of "more powerful" rather than less. By contrast, the Blood Angel list was probably more at the "less powerful" end of the spectrum at the time I took it over.

So, to answer your question more succinctly, I think I would characterize the IW list as borderline overpowered but not broken. It's a strong list that will almost always give you a hard time. And that's fine. Steel Legion is this way. Although I haven't given it much thought in detail, the things that immediately come to mind as reasons for this is that they seem to be able to take all of the coolest toys without many restrictions and that they have access to so much armor. Lots of durability and power all around without having to sacrifice activations or unit selection.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Kyuss - yeah, that's how we usually play it. The bikes just got the -1 for the cover and that was it. I'm vaguely aware that different groups play this differently, is that correct?


we tend to play area terrain so unless specified, all terrain blocks LoS, normally we have hills, woods and ruins/buildings on a base, the entire base blocks LoS, by our rules those bikes wouldn't have been visible to the decimator

I believe Onyx and his crew play TLoS....

either way it's all good 8)
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
kyussinchains wrote:
I believe Onyx and his crew play TLoS....
8)


weirdos ;)
Author:  Onyx [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
kyussinchains wrote:
I believe Onyx and his crew play TLoS....
The only exception being woods/jungles.
We play that they block LoS to the edge of the base and to the height of the highest tree with the see 10cm into/out as in the rules.
If the terrain in between the Decimator and Bikes is trees, we would not have been able to shoot.

Thanks for your thoughts on the Iron Warriors Xenocidal Maniac :)
Author:  Xenocidal Maniac [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
I looked the terrain rules up just to double check, and it looks like we have indeed been playing it wrong. Section 1.9.2 clearly states that line of site is blocked by terrain features such as buildings, hills, and woods. The rule is quite clear.

I seem to recall that when we all first started playing the game here in L.A., there was some debate regarding this, but it's entirely possible that we were using an older and / or less clear version of the rules. We were carrying around a dog-eared copy of the original Epic Armageddon book printed by GW back then.

I'll let the boys know and we will make the adjustment. The good news is, we've rarely used woods up until now, so it probably hasn't affected many games.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
We play the 'see up to 10cm in/out/through terrain rule' too
Author:  Borka [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Nice report thaks for sharing! :)
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blood Angels vs. Iron Warriors
Indeed, and this also affects assaults as well as shooting - which can skew the results of an assault quite significantly, the result of which can materially affect the game.

However, I thought that one list approval 'rule' was to ensure playtests from different groups to try to minimise the effects of different terrain interpretations and densities. Is this not still the case?
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